Medals(rant)

Yeah the medal system is a complete joke...even out here in oz. East Timor was pretty rediculous...I mean we go and secure the airport and restore some semblance of security to Dilli basically skirting the line between coming into open conflict with the TNI whilst trying to stop the militia terrorizing the locals and at the end of the deployment they give ya a peice of tin and slap you on the back and say thanks (service medals).

The funny part was that after Dilli had been secured for like 6 months there was a never ending procession of commissioned officers of all ranks flying in from Canberra to 'check' things out. Most of them wouldn't have even been there for a day yet they went back and all claimed their service and UN medals etc whilst I've seen guys going the extra mile to do things in the field that don't even rate a mention in dispatch.

what a load of crap (Can I say crap here? lol)
 
boy, this hits a sore spot with me. This may be a long post, but bear with me. I think it's totally unfair the way awards are being given out these days. When I left Iraq, my Bn Cdr left with 6 bronze stars; 2 with "V". It's like a right of passage to make your way up the field grade ladder or something. It's pathetic. IT's a total disgrace to everyone over there doing extraordinary things under crappy circumstances. I left with 2 bronze stars; 1 with v and one without. The one with "v" was fair i suppose, the one without was an "atta boy" worthless waste of paper. Here's my rant:

As a new E-7, I was NCOIC on a 3 vehicle patrol that was hit by an IED and ambush from small arms and rpg's. Out of 12 soldiers and 3 vehicles, I had 4 walking soldiers and 1 running truck after the IED went off. One of my E-5's was a saw gunner and went to work on the shooters while trying to provide first aid to the wounded. He shot so much that the spring on the SAW broke and he came to me with the broken weapon and asked me what to do next. I gave him my M-4 and he went back out engaging more targets. Keep in mind I'm a left handed shooter and he's a righty. We loaded the wounded and KIA's into the remaining truck and drove off slowly (at a crawl) so that we didn't disturb the medics working on the 4 casualties in the back. He ran next to the truck for almost 1000 yards shooting over the hood providing cover fire before running out of ammo and getting in the truck. He fired off 2 AT-4's before we were out of the ambush. This kid ( I say kid but he's a man by every definition) did everything right that morning.

I put him in for a BSM with "v" and it was downgraded to an ARCOM with "V" because he wasn't a senior NCO or an Officer. THat's exactly what they told me. THe OIC on the patrol was an 0-4 that got wounded and never fired a single shot. He got a purple heart and a BSM with "v". 3 days later I lost a stripe, and the army lost a 12 yr nco. I totally lost all heart and faith in an organization that I cared so much about. It's very disheartening to see so many deserving soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines and coasties go without recognition, while others use them to climb the ladder at their expense. I'm not slamming all o's here, but we all know the type. Sorry for the rant. I'm usually picking on seggy or commenting on our colgan posts, but this one hit home.
 
dingo222 said:
I'm usually picking on seggy or commenting on our colgan posts
Click to expand...
Now thats just funny :)

But mate I completely agree with you...its stories like yours that get my blood boiling. I agree that all O's arnt like that but i've met a whole heap that are. I'd almost be wanting to say that no medals or citations to be awarded above the company level (can only speak for army) that might cut out a bit of the rot.

Medals are meant to be for something special...not a circle jerk of senior officers to pad their promotion packets. It really sucks....and it ends up making enlisted personnel disregard the genuine ones.

Anyway, thats my illinformed rant mode off...sorry if i've offended any officers here...the mere fact that you ar engaging in this thread means its likely your not one of the poges that we are talking about.
 
dingo222 said:
boy, this hits a sore spot with me...
Click to expand...

Awesome post and a helluva a story bro. Makes anything I did over there look like playing teeter-totter on the playground. Sorry they screwed over your soldier like that.

aussieflyer said:
Now thats just funny :)

But mate I completely agree with you...its stories like yours that get my blood boiling. I agree that all O's arnt like that but i've met a whole heap that are. I'd almost be wanting to say that no medals or citations to be awarded above the company level (can only speak for army) that might cut out a bit of the rot.

Medals are meant to be for something special...not a circle jerk of senior officers to pad their promotion packets. It really sucks....and it ends up making enlisted personnel disregard the genuine ones.

Anyway, thats my illinformed rant mode off...sorry if i've offended any officers here...the mere fact that you ar engaging in this thread means its likely your not one of the poges that we are talking about.
Click to expand...

It's been posted already in this thread, but Officers don't need awards. There are no promotion packets. Officers are boarded, much like E-7s and up are.
 
Thanks Ian!

I wasn't aware of that...only having been enlisted givesme a pretty limted view on that sort of stuff. The only thing I can talk equivocably about is the fact that I saw a ton of canberra brass types coming in for the day to pick up their service medals...it ended up becoming a farce with guys from finance and pay corp coming over for 2 hrs on a resupply herc etc

Anyway, as mentioned they all arnt like that...but it seems, over here at lest, that quite a few are.

Cheers Mate

Ian J said:
Awesome post and a helluva a story bro. Makes anything I did over there look like playing teeter-totter on the playground. Sorry they screwed over your soldier like that.



It's been posted already in this thread, but Officers don't need awards. There are no promotion packets. Officers are boarded, much like E-7s and up are.
Click to expand...
 
dingo222 said:
boy, this hits a sore spot with me. This may be a long post, but bear with me. I think it's totally unfair the way awards are being given out these days.

<SNIP>

THe OIC on the patrol was an 0-4 that got wounded and never fired a single shot. He got a purple heart and a BSM with "v". 3 days later I lost a stripe, and the army lost a 12 yr nco. I totally lost all heart and faith in an organization that I cared so much about.
Click to expand...

Okay, bro...there's a lot more to this story...buried in there is the fact that you lost a stripe. What's going on there?
 
yeah, i was a bit too vocal on what I thought of the situation. Telling an 0-5 to get bent isn't good for career progression
 
nothing is always fair in life, with medals just like with jobs some people get paid better and some worse, it's not always just how you do the job but there's more to it. I've seen people in the Navy getting NAMP for painting the hallway :) I've also seen people volunteering for all kinds of things and never getting anything. Well, that's life. I don't care much for it, if I deserve it I should get it if I don't, well... big deal. It's funny to watch people sucking up thinking they deserved purple heart for changing the engine or something. :D I know the medals mean something as you progress in your career and can make your progress faster and easier, but like I said just like life, there is a bit of luck involved in everything. I was always envious to see young CEO's raking some hard cash and I have had to live paycheck to paycheck all my life, well...whattchagonnadoaboutit? :D have a nice beer and relax! :) I'm just happy riding a c172 :rawk:
 
Ian J said:
Awesome post and a helluva a story bro. Makes anything I did over there look like playing teeter-totter on the playground. Sorry they screwed over your soldier like that.



It's been posted already in this thread, but Officers don't need awards. There are no promotion packets. Officers are boarded, much like E-7s and up are.
Click to expand...

No, they don't NEED awards. . .they do though - need circle jerks. Usually.
 
surreal1221 said:
No, they don't NEED awards. . .they do though - need circle jerks. Usually.
Click to expand...
:confused:

Not sure what you mean - if your joking or not - and if you are, what the joke means.

And don't get me wrong. Ranting about Officers is a time honored tradition. I did plenty of it as an enlisted soldier, and heck, even as an Officer myself. I'm just unclear about this particular one.

Also, as someone who has been both enlisted and and commissioned, it is really interesting to see how false a lot of perceptions are.
 
surreal1221 said:
No, they don't NEED awards. . .they do though - need circle jerks. Usually.
Click to expand...

Since we're throwing out generalizations, then all enlisted guys are a bunch of knuckle-dragging chumps that weren't smart enough to make it into college.

Come on, dude. That is an incredibly ignorant statement to make about the officer corps, regardless of WHAT your personal experiences were.
 
dingo222 said:
yeah, i was a bit too vocal on what I thought of the situation. Telling an 0-5 to get bent isn't good for career progression
Click to expand...

It's also not all that good for life in general in civilized society. Think you're going to be able to maintain your employment at a company if you go rail on mid-to-senior level management similarly? How about going to the police station and shaking your fist at the magistrate for how unfair the parking ticket was that you got? Maybe you can go up to the Capitol and rage against your Congressman in person for that last vote against a bill that directly affects you.
 
Hacker15e said:
Since we're throwing out generalizations, then all enlisted guys are a bunch of knuckle-dragging chumps that weren't smart enough to make it into college.

Come on, dude. That is an incredibly ignorant statement to make about the officer corps, regardless of WHAT your personal experiences were.
Click to expand...
Careful, we may be accused of arguing with emotion instead of with rational facts. That was his latest kick, anyway. ;)

Wonder where "circle jerk" falls into the mix?
 
Ian J said:
Careful, we may be accused of arguing with emotion instead of with rational facts. That was his latest kick, anyway. ;)

Wonder where "circle jerk" falls into the mix?
Click to expand...

I think the idea is that officers sit around a stroke each other about how good they are and give themselves awards, meanwhile the guys wearing the stripes do all the real work and don't get recognized.
 
Hacker15e said:
I think the idea is that officers sit around a stroke each other about how good they are and give themselves awards, meanwhile the guys wearing the stripes do all the real work and don't get recognized.
Click to expand...
Ahh... okay. There are those perceptions I was talking about.
 
Ian J said:
Ahh... okay. There are those perceptions I was talking about.
Click to expand...

What's interesting is that, despite what enlisted guys seem to think, all of the officers I work with (that is, fighter pilots and WSOs) all know full well that an E-3 or E-4 or an E-5 is the backbone of the AF. They all recognize and appreciate the very hard work that support guys (maintainers mostly) put into making the mission happen.

What I saw as a maintenance officer is that the opposite is generally not true -- that enlisted folks really don't have a good grasp or appreciation of what the officer corps (aviators specifically) actually does. Mostly what I got was irritation at officers because of the perception that they were a bunch of pampered primadonnas who showed up to fly, broke the jet, then went to go have a beer afterward, leaving the maintenance guys to bust their knuckles for the next 6 hours fixing the jet.

When I have given incentive flights both in the Eagle and T-38, I've had the enlisted guys show up at the 4 or 5-hour-prior to takeoff showtime and go through the entire planning and briefing process. Then after the flight they get to go through all the post flight paperwork and debriefing. At the end of the 10 or 11 hour day for a 1.5 under the canopy, most of them generally say "wow, I had no idea how much work that was."

Now, I will concede that in the USAF, at least, there is a real problem with educating aviators about the enlisted corps early on. Because of the way officers are trained, most of them have very little exposure to enlisted troops all the way through training and even for the first year or two as a commissioned officer. As a result when they get to their first operational unit they just don't know how to interact with the guys wearing stripes. It generally takes dedicated education from the more experienced guys to get their mind right. At both previous fighter squadrons I've been in, the Commanders have made new guys spend a week working for the maintenance squadron before even starting to fly -- launching and recovering jets, performing BPOs and throughflights, doing unscheduled maintenance on the ramp, working in the fuel barn, etc. It's not enough in and of itself, but it gives new guys a view into something they haven't seen in their entire time in the military...simply because of how training is set up.

Now, don't misconstrue any of this as me saying there are not bad-apple officers. Nor am I saying that there aren't officers who are primarily interested in their own advancement or recognition rather than taking care of their subordinates. And, finally, on the thread topic, I am squarely in the corner that says the USAF, at least, gives out way too many medals for "combat actions" to people who really had nothing to do with actual combat.
 
Ah. . . I see I lighted a marginal fire under some.

I apologize gentlemen. It was a slight joke, and obviously . . . message transmitted, was not the message that was received.

I will say though, that only two officers - in my one location, 4 year, Air Force journey were the type that actually cared about their enlisted team members. The other 15 or 20 officers that I had the "pleasure" of working "for," were the type that were looking out for #1 (themselves) and would do anything necessary to not only run over any enlisted member, but also their fellow officers.

Air Force Weather is a funny thing, especially when trapped in a vault for a certain numbered Air Force.
 
surreal1221 said:
I will say though, that only two officers - in my one location, 4 year, Air Force journey were the type that actually cared about their enlisted team members. The other 15 or 20 officers that I had the "pleasure" of working "for," were the type that were looking out for #1 (themselves) and would do anything necessary to not only run over any enlisted member, but also their fellow officers.
Click to expand...

That's an unfortunate experience. Just out of curiosity, what types of things specifically did the two "good apples" do that makes you think they cared?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top