can any one tell me about dca now?

The only ones here singing the praises of DCA are Fabio and the guy.
Everyone else has felt the shaft from this place. (no pun intended)
If this eranjo guy is sincere and he wants info, he hasn't listened. If otherwise, he is trolling the rest of us.

Fabio, get out of that place and remember why you started down this path. You wanted to fly. Sure maybe you don't have to do it for a living. That is a good thing. You cannot possibly tell me you really enjoy flying a desk and having to deal with all the political nonsense that goes with it. Your still in the orlando area, go down to Exec, there is a new place down there that is looking for MU-2 sics. The same place also needs a cirrus pilot too. They'll take low time guys so you should be in like a thong bikini with that little bit of EMB120 time you have. It would be a lot more fun than dealing with students complaining about the condition of the airplanes and their weak instructors on a daily basis.
 
I know about 10 pilots that have came out of DCA and 8 of them are with the airlines, the other two are still instructing. They are all great pilots. They have never said anything bad about DCA. They do say it was expensive, but said it was all worth it. I would never listen to anyone that has not been there. People rant about price. Which I dont understand, because there are many other schools that cost equal if not more. What I hate most of all, is when people complaining about the advertisements and recruiters. Look at the banners flashing on every webpage. Open up your news paper to the classified section. Turn on your t.v. Hey, while your at it, walk into your local Army recruiters office. Everywhere you turn someone if trying to sell you something. It bull, i know, but it everywhere!!!! Not Just DCA. The company is trying to make money, and the employees are just trying to make a paycheck.
 
I'm not against anyone making money. It's the way they go about it. As an ex instructor there, I got to watch them MILK 100K out of people for a private and an instrument ticket. (Fabio, remember REGGIE?) We all tried telling this poor guy he wasn't going to make it. He didn't listen. So they continued to take his money. They should have showed him the door. Try pulling crappy grades at a college. Do you think they'll let you come back next year? Of course not. Not everyone is cut out for this kind of work nor should be flying an airplane. The school has the balls to bill your account everytime you fart, they damn should have the balls to tell a student they suck and should GO HOME! Several times I had to take students by the side and say, "Hey man, you and I have tried our hardest, but this airplane stuff just isn't you." Do yourself a favor and leave now before someone gets hurt!

The worst part is when someone like reggie gets a private ticket BARELY and then 1 week later goes out and kills himself or other people. You can bet your butt the lawyers will have a field day with DCA and the poor stage check pilot that felt bad that day and signed this idiot off. No one there thinks about the actual ramifications about awarding an individual a pilot ticket. By the time something happens, it's too late. Lives are lost and innocent people are never the same.

As long as DCA is around, this conversation with continue. They bleed you dry as a student and they'll treat you like crap as an instructor. All for what? A job in an RJ for 21K? At one time the "connection" did actually matter. Shortly after 9/11 you couldn't buy a pilot job anywhere. Today they are hiring pilots with minimal skills, minimal experience, for minimal pay.
No one should feel the need to give DCA 80K+ The training is not THAT exceptional. Who knows, Reggie was probably the smart one in this entire story. Just wait until the next time you step in an RJ and he's sitting up front!:( I'm getting off the plane!
 
DCApilot2006 said:
I'm not against anyone making money. It's the way they go about it. As an ex instructor there, I got to watch them MILK 100K out of people for a private and an instrument ticket. (Fabio, remember REGGIE?) We all tried telling this poor guy he wasn't going to make it. He didn't listen. So they continued to take his money. They should have showed him the door. Try pulling crappy grades at a college. Do you think they'll let you come back next year? Of course not. Not everyone is cut out for this kind of work nor should be flying an airplane. The school has the balls to bill your account everytime you fart, they damn should have the balls to tell a student they suck and should GO HOME! Several times I had to take students by the side and say, "Hey man, you and I have tried our hardest, but this airplane stuff just isn't you." Do yourself a favor and leave now before someone gets hurt!

The worst part is when someone like reggie gets a private ticket BARELY and then 1 week later goes out and kills himself or other people. You can bet your butt the lawyers will have a field day with DCA and the poor stage check pilot that felt bad that day and signed this idiot off. No one there thinks about the actual ramifications about awarding an individual a pilot ticket. By the time something happens, it's too late. Lives are lost and innocent people are never the same.

As long as DCA is around, this conversation with continue. They bleed you dry as a student and they'll treat you like crap as an instructor. All for what? A job in an RJ for 21K? At one time the "connection" did actually matter. Shortly after 9/11 you couldn't buy a pilot job anywhere. Today they are hiring pilots with minimal skills, minimal experience, for minimal pay.
No one should feel the need to give DCA 80K+ The training is not THAT exceptional. Who knows, Reggie was probably the smart one in this entire story. Just wait until the next time you step in an RJ and he's sitting up front!:( I'm getting off the plane!
Click to expand...

I only wish things were as simple as you put here. Dude, please do not mention any students that had a difficult time by their names. It is not fair to them.

There is a tight line that cannot be crossed due to potential liability. Students that have difficulties like the one that you have mentioned are warned numerous times by the Academic Review Board.

The board meets every Thursday to check on students progress and to make sure no one is falling through the cracks. There is a minimum standard of performance required to remain enrolled as a student. And if any student starts to fall below minimuns, they are notified and action is taken. The first note is a "Time and Money" letter warning them that they are going to exceed the time required by contract and will likely spend more money than they expected.

They are also called to meet with us and we do advise them of their options. However we cannot simply "kick them out"at the first sign of trouble! They are giving the chance to improve, and after that if all options were spent, they can and usually are terminated from the Academy. And you would be surprised by how many of those students beg to stay after they are told they will spend too much money.

As I have said before, DCA is not for everyone. I have personally recommended part 61 training to some of our students that obviously were not going to make it and needed a different pace.
 
DCApilot2006 said:
The only ones here singing the praises of DCA are Fabio and the gay guy.
Everyone else has felt the shaft from this place. (no pun intended)
If this eranjo guy is sincere and he wants info, he hasn't listened. If otherwise, he is trolling the rest of us.

Fabio, get out of that place and remember why you started down this path. You wanted to fly. Sure maybe you don't have to do it for a living. That is a good thing. You cannot possibly tell me you really enjoy flying a desk and having to deal with all the political nonsense that goes with it. Your still in the orlando area, go down to Exec, there is a new place down there that is looking for MU-2 sics. The same place also needs a cirrus pilot too. They'll take low time guys so you should be in like a thong bikini with that little bit of EMB120 time you have. It would be a lot more fun than dealing with students complaining about the condition of the airplanes and their weak instructors on a daily basis.
Click to expand...

I am flying. Not as much as I want but still flying. And you are absolutely right, flying the desk and dealing with students and instructors in trouble are the "bucket" part of that job... However I saw an opportunity to help both instructors and students and imporve in areas that really upset me before. There are a lot of really exciting things coming to the Academy and one of them might even benefit you personally, I just can't announce it yet. But it is related to our "connection" and if it does happen you can bet it will be announced here.

Everyone knows that I am not a career employee at DCA. I am giving back some of the good things I received from them and am grateful for a lot of things! Eventually I will be flying 15 days a month and probably helping the Academy with CFI orals or perhaps Bridge Sims as many of our Alumni have. But It is not the right time yet. Thanks for the info on Exec, but I will pass at this time...

Hey, whenever you are around please stop by...
 
"It bull, i know"

I know, too....

Just cause the army does it, doesn't help me feel better about it.

You think a flight school should stoop as low as army recruiting to suck in money because, after all, it's just good business?

Please. If that works for you, that's fine. I started flying in the 70's. Honor and dignity mean a lot to me. Teaching someone how to fly is a form of art. Entering this career should contain rites of passage that are handed down from the generations before. Entering this profession shouldn't just be a commodity to attain maximum profit, run by people just trying to make a buck.

It makes me sick that it's come to that.
 
Fabio, there has been many Reggies at the academy, I didn't post his last name.

So what? They sent him a bunch of letters. Big deal. He was a liability, was never going to teach and was never going to make it to an airline. You and I both know they MILKED the hell out of this poor guy. He should have been kicked to the curb 1 month into his private ticket. DCA knows from the moment you sign the contract who has it and who doesn't. It's a money thing plain and simple. He had it, they took it. You know that guy had many kids at home and speaking of, I heard is losing it too. The worst part, he was one of the nicest guys I've ever had the pleasure to meet. He was a friend.

Oh, there is nothing that academy could do for me these days that would help me more than to close it's thieving doors. I'm thousands of miles away. I sick of the rhetoric, lies and deceit that still emanates from Sanford.
 
Having been away from DCA for almost two years, I've had time to reflect on DCA and my time there. I've also had time to talk to ex-instructors who are now flying the line at ASA, Chautauqua, and Comair.

DCA, when it was Comair Academy and fully owned and operated by Comair; was operated as it should be. You got all your ratings, instructed, and went on to fly for Comair. The Comair even had an EMB-120 school was at CAA. Comair bought RJ's and the Brasillia school was closed at CAA. Delta bought Comair and CAA, so even though it's owned by Comair Holdings, Delta has complete control. Now the door opened up to fly for ASA the other DL wholly owned regional. 9/11 came and the hiring slowed to a crawl. CAA and other academy type operations were the only sure way to get hired by a regional partner of said schools. Hiring at regionals began to increase due to the mass influx of RJ's. More and more pilots who went to FBO's are now getting picked up, so they go with a name change to DCA to use that Delta branding to attract more cutomers.
When I started out DCA in 2003 was still a decent place. I already had my PPL when I started. I spent a total $48,000 for VFP, INST, and most of my CSEL. I went from the full program to the flex program, to part 61. I can definitely say that I was charged more for airplane rental and fuel charges in the regular program, than I did when I was in flex or part 61. The full program students get charged a fuel surcharge where flex and part 61 student didn't. Aircraft rental in flex and part 61 was cheaper than the full program charged. I do admit that my instument took a little longer and more money than expected. I made simple stupid mistakes on my end of course checkrides, because I was nervous. I knew how to do the tasks, I just couldn't perform them due to the nervousness. Fabio helped me out by giving me some good advice. he told me to think of the check ride as a real IFR flight and I was operating the flight as an already rated IFR pilot. It worked! I knocked the hell out of the checkride!
Anyways I'm getting off subject. I met a buch of great individuals and a couple not so great individuals. The training was awesome but expensive.

Now, as I think about the past and have talked with former instructors who are now flying the line, I can definitely say I'd not do it over again. Don't get me wrong I enjoyed my time there, but I could have spent less money and had enought to get farther than I did at DCA. I did originally fall for the "guaranteed interview" schpiel, but after being a student, a DCA emplyee, and eventually a Comair emplyee, I realized I didn't need a guaranteed interview to get to a regional. Those who I've talked to since I've been at Comair now and before all said that if they'd known what they know now that they wouldn't have gone to DCA and spent the amount of money they spent either. Some actually told me to leave while I was still a student.
DCA is a whole different school now. Delta knows it makes them money, so they are more involved in the day to day operations, hence the new aircraft, training curriculum, and even putting their ex-cheif pilot in command of the school. Delta even advertises the school in it's Sky in-flight magazine now. I just don't see where DCA is going in the future.
 
DCApilot2006 said:
Fabio, there has been many Reggies at the academy, I didn't post his last name.

So what? They sent him a bunch of letters. Big deal. He was a liability, was never going to teach and was never going to make it to an airline. You and I both know they MILKED the hell out of this poor guy. He should have been kicked to the curb 1 month into his private ticket. DCA knows from the moment you sign the contract who has it and who doesn't. It's a money thing plain and simple. He had it, they took it. You know that guy had many kids at home and speaking of, I heard is losing it too. The worst part, he was one of the nicest guys I've ever had the pleasure to meet. He was a friend.

Oh, there is nothing that academy could do for me these days that would help me more than to close it's thieving doors. I'm thousands of miles away. I sick of the rhetoric, lies and deceit that still emanates from Sanford.
Click to expand...


It is pretty obviuos that you are bitter about the place. And you probably have your own reasons.

The only thing I counter from your statements above is that DCA does not know "who has it and who doesn't" the moment you sign the contract. Dude I am on the "inside" now and nothing could be further from the truth. As a matter of fact a lot of my time is spent in trying to help those is trouble. And I meet with students for counseling all the time... You would be surprised by how many of them don't want to put the effort into the program.
 
It's been a while, but I'll say it again....I finished the courses (VFP-MEI) under $38,000 and UNDER budget. This was under the new pricing structure (post Jan-2001). I am neither specially skilled nor blessed with genius intellect. But I put forth MAXIMUM effort and stayed involved in the management of my training progress. Then again, since it was my money, I was VERY motivated. Perfect, no. But it worked well for me.
 
JAM said:
It's been a while, but I'll say it again....I finished the courses (VFP-MEI) under $38,000 and UNDER budget. This was under the new pricing structure (post Jan-2001). I am neither specially skilled nor blessed with genius intellect. But I put forth MAXIMUM effort and stayed involved in the management of my training progress. Then again, since it was my money, I was VERY motivated. Perfect, no. But it worked well for me.
Click to expand...

I am a little skeptical of this. What structure were you on..post Jan-2001? Prices have not been the same for the last 6+ years. I can tell you that the pre-Cirrus cost quote for VFP-MEI is $58,000 as of 2003-2004...I know this because it was on my contract for the academy. So for you to claim you were $20K under sounds a little too good. In addition, that $58,000 did not have the increased fuel surcharge on it so it only goes up from there.

My time there, VFP-MEI cost me about $2,000 over quote which is a wash when you consider the fuel surcharge. I unsat 2 lessons the entire time there so I don't know where the $38,000 is from.
 
I am not around the school these days, thank GOD. But what is the going rate for a cirrus and an instructor? Someone told me the other week it was around 350an hour! Any truth to this figure???:panic:
 
I am not around the school these days, thank GOD. But what is the going rate for a cirrus and an instructor? Someone told me the other week it was around 350an hour! Any truth to this figure???:panic:
__________________

The Cirrus is $119 wet and the flight instructor is still $54 per hour.
 
I'm flying at DCA currently and in the new cirrus/fits program.

Cost is --- $109.48 for the plane, wet
$35.64 for instruction
$$35.64 for Pre & Post flight briefings <B.S. IMO
 
Air Orlando rents the SR-20 $196 and SR-22 $245 plus surcharge, plus instructor $46-49/hour. No one I've found rents an Extra 200, but I've found Extra 300's for $400-$500/hour with instructor ... APS/Fighter Combat in Airzona charges $450 for a 20 minute ride in an Extra 300. Its just not getting cheaper fellas. Prices have risen nearly 8-10% a year over the past 10 years. Fuel prices are all over the board at $4-$5/gallon ... some places higher.

Cost of aircraft have risen significantly, Cirrus is delivering most aircraft over the $400k mark ... many approaching a whopping $600k. Extra's are advertised in the upper $300k's. Seminoles are found for $550,000. These prices just rice fly in the face of the current economy. Who knows what DCA pays for its aircraft. Its a challenge to cypher it all and figure out which way to go.

Its getting expensive out there fellas, can you imagine what insurance rates must be on these planes. DCA clearly makes their profits off of instruction. Instructors pay for their education and eventual job. If you ever wanted to know how valuable you are to a company ... there's part of your answer.
 
Speedy said:
Who knows what DCA pays for its aircraft. Its a challenge to cypher it all and figure out which way to go.

Its getting expensive out there fellas, can you imagine what insurance rates must be on these planes. DCA clearly makes their profits off of instruction. Instructors pay for their education and eventual job. If you ever wanted to know how valuable you are to a company ... there's part of your answer.
Click to expand...

I'm wondering two things:

1) How much does an SR-20 or an SR-22 cost to operate per hour?

2) For $550K, can't you get a used TBM or Meridian? EDIT - never mind. I looked up the prices. 1.2M avg for a Meridian or a Socata. Question 1 still stands.
 
"EDIT - never mind." Thats funny KillBilly. Wouldn't that be nice if they were that price. Six or seven of us could buy one and we could all get some turbine time and sell it after we're done.

Clearly you get what you pay for. Look at the problems DCA's had buying older generation Cirrus and Extra 200's vs. Cirrus Gen/3's. There's all kinds of discussion on the web regarding problems with these planes dating back to 2002/03.

Operating costs would be the cheapest part of the equation I bet. Cost of money/capital, ops cost, insurance, storage, unplanned costs ... what else could there be? Cirrus seems to spend a lot of time in the maintenance shed. at other schools and FBO's.
 
Some thoughts about DCA from a recent student:

It is an expensive place to train. Period. More relevant is that it will be significantly more expensive than they quote. Occasionally I hear of people who come in under budget, but I have yet to meet one. Everyone I know was in the process of tacking more money onto their loan or asking mom and pop for another check. In my case? Definitely over budget, though I haven't finished crunching the numbers yet. I can count on one hand (plus one finger if you include a sim session) the number of flights I had to redo, so I wasn't a slouch.

Unless you're lucky, it will take longer than you're quoted. DCA is supposed to be a full-time program, but given the current instructor situation, many students are flying every other day at best. This may be a more recent phenomenon--through my PPL and the first part of my IR, I was flying daily, often twice a day. Later in the program, one of my instructors was carrying eight students.

The pre- and post- flight briefings are mostly non-existent, but you will be charged. There are a few instructors who are very good about briefs, but many either don't care or don't have time in their back-to-back-to-back schedule.

The ground school is hit-or-miss. In some ground schools I had excellent instructors who could really contextualize information and offer relevant insight. In other cases I had wet CFIs reading the Power Point verbatim, having never seen it before. Your mileage may vary.

In the end, of course, it all comes down to you and your flight instructor. With good instructors, you'll learn a lot, have a great time and merrily joke about how the Hobbs eats money. With a poor instructor, you'll be miserable, learn the bare minimum and curse your decision. Through no fault of my own (firings, resignations, promotions, etc.) I had quite a few instructors in my time at DCA. I'd say the ratio of awesome::sucktastic is about 1:1.

Sanford sucks. No way around that one. To be fair, however, few high-volume flight schools are in highly-desirable areas. If you don't mind commuting, Orlando can be quite pleasant.

Bottom line, if I had it to do again I would choose a different place for flight training. Overall, the training is fine, but I don't think it's as excellent as the premium it comes at. The regional connections aren't really relevant in the current climate. It is a very inconsistent place and, being a for-profit venture, you have to fight hard to keep that from working solely in their favor.

I think of it this way: you can train cheaper, faster and better elsewhere. Not necessarily all three, but pick two and you can easily find a place.
 
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