The urinating match.... does it continue?

belliott said:
Seriously.... take a chill pill.... just because you disagree with the choices others have made in their lives that does not give you the right to dictate whom I talk to... you don't know the purpose of nor the outcome of my conversation. Furthermore... as a non regional pilot I am trying my best to stay on top of the politics involved but I cannot dedicate that much time to read the rants of others.
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You are wrong sir! You need to educate yourself properly and understand what has been paid by pilots through sweat, blood, time away from home, divorces, pay cuts, pensions being thrown out, etc etc etc. It goes on and on. It's because of pilots like these, that this profession is partly what it is. If we as an industry stood tall and united, EVERY single one of you would be looking forward to a profession where you are paid and respected amongst the public as you should. But I'm just another disgruntled pilot who's lost his pension and didn't plan for all this right?
 
And some would say you're a whiner too. . .and that if your going to whine, you might as well pack yo #### and leave. . .:)

That is. . .if you didn't have the skywestalpa.org website in your signature. :)
 
Shouldn't Freedom pilots be apart of the whole argument? I mean 3 years ago they were created to skirt around the Mesa contract negotiations. I know they've since resolved the issue and unionized, but it doesn't ignore how the airline came into existance.
 
HP N826AW said:
Shouldn't Freedom pilots be apart of the whole argument? I mean 3 years ago they were created to skirt around the Mesa contract negotiations. I know they've since resolved the issue and unionized, but it doesn't ignore how the airline came into existance.
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None of the pilots that fly for Freedom today were original Freedumb A-listers that screwed over their fellow pilots. All of the original Freedumb pilots are either gone, or working on a different Mesa certificate now.
 
Mesa = Bottom feeder airline.

Freedom = Offshoot of Bottom feeder airline.

Either way.......STAY AWAY! Too many good regionals hiring for you to play ANY part of MAG!



[size=-2]Although.....at least they're ALPA.....not that it does them any good.[/size]
 
mrivc211 said:
You are wrong sir! You need to educate yourself properly and understand what has been paid by pilots through sweat, blood, time away from home, divorces, pay cuts, pensions being thrown out, etc etc etc. It goes on and on. It's because of pilots like these, that this profession is partly what it is. If we as an industry stood tall and united, EVERY single one of you would be looking forward to a profession where you are paid and respected amongst the public as you should. But I'm just another disgruntled pilot who's lost his pension and didn't plan for all this right?
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Those airlines are taking advantage of a fiscal situation and even without them, we still would be working for lower wages than yester-year. Over time, majority will prevail and we will get our wages increased. Life isn't supposed to be flowers and puppies and you can expect there to always be stress and under-cutters in the industry. Don't expect everyone to stay put at a union airline just for the principle of it. This is simply because not everyone agrees that unions are the end-all to industry problems.

Unions are great for many reasons. They aren't, however, intended to be the "safety group" to get people to snap out of it and not go to a non-union carrier. Everything will be fine. We will get some higher wages. Just you wait!
 
Ya know, we could set it up for pattern bargaining kinda the way Velo mentioned the auto industry.....if it weren't for management dragging their feet in negoitations or bankruptcy courts tossing out contracts. Take us for example. If we were to sign a contract tomorrow with the amendable date that would have been used when our current contract was actually up, we'd be right back into opening Section 6 talks in less than a year. Why? Management is dragging their feet and doing just little enough to say they're not bargaining in bad faith. They know a new contract is gonna cost them more, so why rush into it? Enjoy the profit and stock options while ya can.

Look at FedEx/UPS. UPS was the top paid for, what, a week? Then FedEx topped them. Once the contracts negotiated under the threat of bankruptcy start getting re-negotiated, I think we'll start to see an upward trend again. Continental's first up, and I think Alaska's right there with them.

As far as jetBlue being a major player in the downfall of wages, I'm still not buying it. LCCs with a much wider range of routes such as SWA, AirTran and America West along with the events and economic impact of 9/11 were the major players. Might as well say Great Lakes is the one responsible for the low wages at the regionals.
 
ALPA could also start demanding retroactive pay in every contract to eliminate the incentive for airlines to drag their feet. The bargaining agreements for my wife's school district are always retroactive, so whether the negotiations take ten days or ten months, they always get the raises back to the beginning of the school year.

It also will help if we can get a President who will appoint an NMB that actually will release pilots to strike.
 
Minnesota_Flyer said:
ALPA could also start demanding retroactive pay in every contract to eliminate the incentive for airlines to drag their feet. The bargaining agreements for my wife's school district are always retroactive, so whether the negotiations take ten days or ten months, they always get the raises back to the beginning of the school year.

It also will help if we can get a President who will appoint an NMB that actually will release pilots to strike.
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But the retro pay will be negotiated down every time. At least that is the way it has been my company.
 
Minnesota_Flyer said:
ALPA could also start demanding retroactive pay in every contract to eliminate the incentive for airlines to drag their feet. The bargaining agreements for my wife's school district are always retroactive, so whether the negotiations take ten days or ten months, they always get the raises back to the beginning of the school year.

It also will help if we can get a President who will appoint an NMB that actually will release pilots to strike.
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Vote Pro-Labor. . .Pro-Union, and recognize who the AFL-CIO is endorsing.
 
surreal1221 said:
Vote Pro-Labor. . .Pro-Union, and recognize who the AFL-CIO is endorsing.
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Which does not necessarily mean one specific party. Someone on FI presented information that showed that the Clinton administration was just as labor unfriendly as the Bush administration has been.
 
Chris_Ford said:
Which does not necessarily mean one specific party. Someone on FI presented information that showed that the Clinton administration was just as labor unfriendly as the Bush administration has been.
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Not true. The Clinton administration was certainly not as friendly towards labor as some Democrats (reference NAFTA), but it's a hell of a lot better than what we have with Bush. ALPA always had open communications with the Clinton administration. White House counsel Bruce Lindsay was actually in the room for the NWA negotiations during their strike in 1998. His conversations directly with President Clinton about the situation led to NWA management backing down. With the Bush administration, the White House won't even take our calls. Clinton might not have been perfect for labor, but he was far superior to what we've got now.
 
Chris_Ford said:
Which does not necessarily mean one specific party. Someone on FI presented information that showed that the Clinton administration was just as labor unfriendly as the Bush administration has been.
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Don't be so hard headed Chris.

Did I mention one party in my post? No, I simply stated to vote Pro-Labor, Pro-Union, and take what the AFL-CIO says to heart when they do endorse a candidate. If it happens to be a democratic candidate, then so be it, if it happens to be a republican candidate, then also - so be it.
 
kellwolf said:
This is what we have to look at. It's tough to get the bar raised when all the other -900 operators out there have either jumped on a slight override from their -200 flying or been hammered in bankruptcy. MESA, oddly enough, has the highest 5 year CA rate. A 5 year CA at Pinnacle at CURRENT rates only makes $5 an hour less than a Skywest -900 CA.
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Kellwolf,
Sorry to reply to something from a week and a half ago, but...I'm not happy with Skywest's 700-900 rates. That being said, before you lump Skywest in with Gojets, consider that in you guys' negotiations you'll be able to point to CRJ200 2nd year FO pay that is *$11/hr* more than Pinnacle, 5yr FO pay on the CRJ200 that is $4/hr less, 5yr CA pay that is $2 less an hour. I think a lot of guys forget that for 50 seat pay, Skywest is well above the industry average (although I completely understand that it's not our pilots that are raising the bar, as we really don't have any say in it).
 
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