BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
CPs ain't worth all that. At the regional level anyways, they are mostly just paper pushers.
RJ program now FREE to ATP instructors
- Thread starter Trip7
- Start date
CPs ain't worth all that. At the regional level anyways, they are mostly just paper pushers.
Chris_Ford
Well-Known Member
And you know this how?
DE727UPS
Well-Known Member
"Because any place they went to is vastly superior to any school they didn't go to"
Whatever man...
It's not so much the school, as the system. Going from PPL to CFIMEI in 90 days will NEVER produce the same quality pilot/instructor as the way it worked back in the day when you experienced so many things over a longer period of time.
Just cause the 90 day program works doesn't mean it's better. I don't think it is.
This whole business of lowering the bar in aviation is something that's hard to keep quiet about when you've been doing it since 1978. I'm not ready to accept the new world order even if the regionals are.
Whatever man...
It's not so much the school, as the system. Going from PPL to CFIMEI in 90 days will NEVER produce the same quality pilot/instructor as the way it worked back in the day when you experienced so many things over a longer period of time.
Just cause the 90 day program works doesn't mean it's better. I don't think it is.
This whole business of lowering the bar in aviation is something that's hard to keep quiet about when you've been doing it since 1978. I'm not ready to accept the new world order even if the regionals are.
DE727UPS
Well-Known Member
"And let it be known that Don speaks the truth always.
Don speaks from his years of experience in the biz and calls them as he sees them. I won't bore you with the details.
I just find it funny as heck that guys currently working or training at ATP, guys who had 500 hours a month ago, are trying to tell regional and major airline pilots who opine here than they have no clue. No clue on how ATP works, no clue on how pilot training should work in 2007, no clue on what the min standards should be, and certainly no clue if you are dumb enough to challenge the pro-ATP status quo here at the JC ATP fourm.
I swear, some of you guys must be getting rebates for your posts here...
Don speaks from his years of experience in the biz and calls them as he sees them. I won't bore you with the details.
I just find it funny as heck that guys currently working or training at ATP, guys who had 500 hours a month ago, are trying to tell regional and major airline pilots who opine here than they have no clue. No clue on how ATP works, no clue on how pilot training should work in 2007, no clue on what the min standards should be, and certainly no clue if you are dumb enough to challenge the pro-ATP status quo here at the JC ATP fourm.
I swear, some of you guys must be getting rebates for your posts here...
turbomax97
What can brown do for you?
Haha, it's either rebates, or their fear of whoever from admin is cruising the forum and researching into who's who here... you never know!
Koolaid? No thx for me!
Trip7
Well-Known Member
Its very interesting to note that most of the naysayers on here who say the RJ course isn't worth it are the one who have NOT taken the program. Its also interesting to note that most anti-ATP posters have NEVER trained at ATP.
Most pro-ATP posters on here have been on both sides of the fence, including myself.
Most pro-ATP posters on here have been on both sides of the fence, including myself.
Seggy
Well-Known Member
Its very interesting to not that most of the naysayers on here who say the RJ course isn't worth it are the one who have NOT taken the program. Its also interesting to note that most anti-ATP posters have NEVER trained at ATP.
First I am not a naysayer of ATPs program. They produce a good pilot and recommend them to anyone.
But I like calling a spade a spade and the program is not needed.
Seggy
Well-Known Member
I have jumpsat around enough to see that working an FMS, Autopilot, or glass cockpit is not rocket science. You don't 'need' a program like ATPs to 'prepare' you to fly them.
I was jumpseating on a UAL 757 a few days ago, were groundstopped and the Captain and FO were showing me how to use that FMS and how it incorporates into the autopilot. Pretty dang easy if you ask me.
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
People aren't knocking the RJ course because they think it is bad. They are knocking it because they think it is unnecessary. After a lot of the crap some people have posted here I am really surprised that the "naysayers" still even care about trying to save some people some cabbage.
So far I haven't seen one post here from a person who did the RJ program and is now at a regional and has said "THAT MADE ALL THE DIFFERENCE." I see a bunch of people posting who have made it to regionals WITH OUT doing the RJ program and got through just fine. And I have seen a bunch of people posting who got to the regionals and DID the RJ program and have said that it didn't really do that much for them.
The people who are all about it seem to be the ones who are going to take it just as soon as they hit their min hours and seem to think it is going to be like Tinkerbell's wand and all they will have to do is think some happy thoughts and they can sleep through their 121 ground school.
As to the original point of this thread... yeah, it's great ATP is giving it to their instructors free after a while... but a better pay rate or a cash bonus would be a whole lot more useful. It's sort of like the wheel of cheese my company used to hand out at Christmas.
So far I haven't seen one post here from a person who did the RJ program and is now at a regional and has said "THAT MADE ALL THE DIFFERENCE." I see a bunch of people posting who have made it to regionals WITH OUT doing the RJ program and got through just fine. And I have seen a bunch of people posting who got to the regionals and DID the RJ program and have said that it didn't really do that much for them.
The people who are all about it seem to be the ones who are going to take it just as soon as they hit their min hours and seem to think it is going to be like Tinkerbell's wand and all they will have to do is think some happy thoughts and they can sleep through their 121 ground school.
As to the original point of this thread... yeah, it's great ATP is giving it to their instructors free after a while... but a better pay rate or a cash bonus would be a whole lot more useful. It's sort of like the wheel of cheese my company used to hand out at Christmas.
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
That's awesome... you made jumpseat (not even a word to begin with) a past perfective... excellent work captain!
Actually, the "technology" stuff is pretty easy. There are some times when it just won't do what you want, but 99% of the time when that happens you can always revert to a lower level of automation and everything will be just fine. I think the hardest part of adjusting (and something that the RJ program doesn't even touch upon) is thinking like a pilot in a jet.
Trip7
Well-Known Member
Where are these posts?
Trip7
Well-Known Member
How is that different from the RJ program?
I agree with you 100% that the RJ program is not needed, but I disagree with your opinion that it is useless and doesn't help. Without a doubt having that on your resume along with the RJ director's letter of recommendation will help you get hired sooner and make ground school easier. Just ask the guys hired on to the E170 under 500 hrs at Republic going to Paris for training.
I agree with you 100% that the RJ program is not needed, but I disagree with your opinion that it is useless and doesn't help. Without a doubt having that on your resume along with the RJ director's letter of recommendation will help you get hired sooner and make ground school easier. Just ask the guys hired on to the E170 under 500 hrs at Republic going to Paris for training.
Airdale
Well-Known Member
Just ask the guys hired on to the E170 under 500 hrs at Republic going to Paris for training.
Better get da word out to my family - take the TRAIN!! :laff:
DE727UPS
Well-Known Member
Just for the record. I got my ATP and MEI from AllAtps in LGB in the mid-80's. The MEI part is quite a story....
"After a lot of the crap some people have posted here I am really surprised that the "naysayers" still even care..."
Ditto...
"I agree with you 100% that the RJ program is not needed"
Here's the part you haven't got since you started posting here. The vast majority of professional pilots, those of us who are where you want to be, earned their way up the ladder with hard work and effort. When you talk about the greatest feature of the RJ course as being nothing more than a recommendation and a way to get hired sooner, it smacks of buying your way in rather than earning it. With guys getting to the right seat of the jet with so little worldly experience, these days, that attitude is bound to bother a lot of folks. It's really not much different than the attitude that draws people to Gulfstream.
"After a lot of the crap some people have posted here I am really surprised that the "naysayers" still even care..."
Ditto...
"I agree with you 100% that the RJ program is not needed"
Here's the part you haven't got since you started posting here. The vast majority of professional pilots, those of us who are where you want to be, earned their way up the ladder with hard work and effort. When you talk about the greatest feature of the RJ course as being nothing more than a recommendation and a way to get hired sooner, it smacks of buying your way in rather than earning it. With guys getting to the right seat of the jet with so little worldly experience, these days, that attitude is bound to bother a lot of folks. It's really not much different than the attitude that draws people to Gulfstream.
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
How is that different from the RJ program?
I agree with you 100% that the RJ program is not needed, but I disagree with your opinion that it is useless and doesn't help. Without a doubt having that on your resume along with the RJ director's letter of recommendation will help you get hired sooner and make ground school easier. Just ask the guys hired on to the E170 under 500 hrs at Republic going to Paris for training.
Please check the number of contradictions in this post!
Trip7
Well-Known Member
The RJ program is no walk in the park. It requires at least 40 hrs of home study. You have to pass the systems test on day one with at least an 80%. There is no guarantee you will pass the course just by signing up. People have failed before.
Once again the program is not neccessary to make it to a regional but it may help you get to a regional faster, especially the top tier regionals and have you better prepared for ground school. Whether or not it is worth it to you is merely an opinion. The offer is on the table. Some will take it and reap the benefits, some won't.
I am so fed up with some of you nay sayers, especially UPS...
ATP is not the end all program, but compared some of the others, they aren't bad. I'm glad I have sat down and done my research on schools and the system, otherwise I wouldn't know what the heck I was getting into.
UPS, why don't you bug out and do something useful for a change, other than bash the schools, especially ATP. As I said, they may not be the best or cheapest, but the seem to produce a good product and it seems to me that the FAA and airlines would agree. Yes, I know there is mass hiring going on and that plays into it, but come on. I'm aware that training is a lot different, and in your mind doesn't compare to what you did, but it works. These guys have to fly the same amount of hours you did in order to achieve all the ratings. Apparently, it is still not enough.
"This whole business of lowering the bar in aviation is something that's hard to keep quiet about when you've been doing it since 1978. I'm not ready to accept the new world order even if the regionals are."
People I know that have done it longer than you seem to think otherwise and some of them are even ex-military guys. I don't think you can speak for the whole industry.
"I just find it funny as heck that guys currently working or training at ATP, guys who had 500 hours a month ago, are trying to tell regional and major airline pilots who opine here than they have no clue."
Who here has done that. I think they have more specific info on the school than you, which would make sense since you don't need to go to the school. Your arguments are based on your beliefs, which is ok, but what about specifics on the school. Have you personally flown with one of these guys and/or gone to look at the school to see how it really is?????
"Here's the part you haven't got since you started posting here. The vast majority of professional pilots, those of us who are where you want to be, earned their way up the ladder with hard work and effort"
Those attending ATP wouldn't have?? That is a crappy statement. Those that I've met have bussed their @ss.
That sums it up for me. You think that those ATP'ers haven't earned a right to fly because they went about it a different way than you?? Wow, what a great comment, I'm sure your a joy to fly with.
ATP is not the end all program, but compared some of the others, they aren't bad. I'm glad I have sat down and done my research on schools and the system, otherwise I wouldn't know what the heck I was getting into.
UPS, why don't you bug out and do something useful for a change, other than bash the schools, especially ATP. As I said, they may not be the best or cheapest, but the seem to produce a good product and it seems to me that the FAA and airlines would agree. Yes, I know there is mass hiring going on and that plays into it, but come on. I'm aware that training is a lot different, and in your mind doesn't compare to what you did, but it works. These guys have to fly the same amount of hours you did in order to achieve all the ratings. Apparently, it is still not enough.
"This whole business of lowering the bar in aviation is something that's hard to keep quiet about when you've been doing it since 1978. I'm not ready to accept the new world order even if the regionals are."
People I know that have done it longer than you seem to think otherwise and some of them are even ex-military guys. I don't think you can speak for the whole industry.
"I just find it funny as heck that guys currently working or training at ATP, guys who had 500 hours a month ago, are trying to tell regional and major airline pilots who opine here than they have no clue."
Who here has done that. I think they have more specific info on the school than you, which would make sense since you don't need to go to the school. Your arguments are based on your beliefs, which is ok, but what about specifics on the school. Have you personally flown with one of these guys and/or gone to look at the school to see how it really is?????
"Here's the part you haven't got since you started posting here. The vast majority of professional pilots, those of us who are where you want to be, earned their way up the ladder with hard work and effort"
Those attending ATP wouldn't have?? That is a crappy statement. Those that I've met have bussed their @ss.
That sums it up for me. You think that those ATP'ers haven't earned a right to fly because they went about it a different way than you?? Wow, what a great comment, I'm sure your a joy to fly with.