CFI Logbooks

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piston6565

New Member
I started thinking about logging questions that I am unable to reference in the FARs. I know some CFI's who say they log all the landings no matter who does them others do not. I understand they do not count for currency but do you log them? Why would you? Also, when giving SIM/FTD Dual do yall start another column in your logbook labeled SIM/FTD Dual Given or just don't log it in your logbook - b/c I know your Dual Given or As Flight Instructor (depending on the type of logbook you use) column is only for Airplane Dual. Also, approaches must be logged by CFI if in actual conditions?(I know you do not in simulated). Sorry about all the questions but I am tired of getting different answers. Everyone I talk to says or does something completely different. Thanks ahead of time.
 
All the answers are in the FARs.

piston6565 said:
Landings...for currency but do you log them?
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No.

<<Why would you? >>

No reason.

<<Also, when giving SIM/FTD Dual do yall start another column in your logbook labeled SIM/FTD Dual Given or just don't log it in your logbook - b/c>>

I log it as Dual given and Pilot time. Look up "Pilot Time" in 61.1,

<<I know your Dual Given or As Flight Instructor (depending on the type of logbook you use) column is only for Airplane Dual. >>

Why do you think that? The regulations do not govern how I log dual given or as Flight Instructor.


<<Also, approaches must be logged by CFI if in actual conditions?>>

No. The only thing you're required to log is listed in 61.51(a).
 
I am not sure why I thought Dual Given had to be in an airplane. The more experienced I get I learn that you can not depend on anyone with their knowledge. You have to look it up yourself. It's hilarious how many false aviation do's and don'ts that I have heard throughout the past 7 years. You hear it for so long you begin to believe it!!!! This is one that was just unclear and the regulations do not support what some of my fellow CFIs say.
 
piston6565 said:
the regulations do not support what some of my fellow CFIs say.
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Yes, learning begins when you ignore your friends and turn to primary sources. Some people, however, lack the confidence to draw conclusions that differ from those of their friends, no matter what the evidence.
 
I only log the landings I've actually been on the controls in my logbook. However, in my "unofficial" logbook (pieces of paper in my kneeboard) I try to keep track of how many landings the student did also in case they forgot to log a particular flight, etc.
 
SpiraMirabilis said:
I only log the landings I've actually been on the controls in my logbook. However, in my "unofficial" logbook (pieces of paper in my kneeboard) I try to keep track of how many landings the student did also in case they forgot to log a particular flight, etc.
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Do those include "saved" landings when you may not have been the SOLE manipulator (student's white knuckled grip of death), but it was definately you landing the plane. I haven't been logging them, but I probably should, never have to worry about currency that way.
 
bdhill1979 said:
Do those include "saved" landings when you may not have been the SOLE manipulator (student's white knuckled grip of death), but it was definately you landing the plane. I haven't been logging them, but I probably should, never have to worry about currency that way.
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I do. If I have to help out a bit I wont count it, but if I'm the one moving the controls around so that we don't hit the ground in an uncontrolled manner, I get the landing. While their hands are probably still on the controls, the fact that they weren't manipulating them is more than likely the problem to begin with ;-)
 
Screaming_Emu said:
I do. If I have to help out a bit I wont count it, but if I'm the one moving the controls around so that we don't hit the ground in an uncontrolled manner, I get the landing. While their hands are probably still on the controls, the fact that they weren't manipulating them is more than likely the problem to begin with ;-)
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:yeahthat:
Indeed,hitting the ground in an uncontrolled manner is bad, at least in my opinion;).
 
bdhill1979 said:
Do those include "saved" landings when you may not have been the SOLE manipulator (student's white knuckled grip of death), but it was definately you landing the plane. I haven't been logging them, but I probably should, never have to worry about currency that way.
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Pull out the currency reg and show us where it says, "not the sole manipulator but saved it."

BTW, IMO, if you can really maintain currency solely based on white knuckled students who freeze on the controls requiring you to take complete control away from them (not just an assist), there may be a wee bit of a problem with your teaching technique or you have an unusually high number of students who have no business near airplanes.
 
A little off topic but show them the old pen trick. Have them hold a pen or pencil between their fingers on their left hand. That way they can't white knuckle it. I don't agree with logging the saves, because there is more to a landing than just the flare, usually if you ask the student he will let you take one or two trips around the pattern.
 
cfii2007 said:
I don't log sim time, but do log the landings, just to keep track and not for my currency.
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Do you identify them in some way as not counting for currency (or identify the ones that do count) or are they all mixed in? Remember, it may be "your" logbook but it is also an official record and there is a potential for it to be misread by the FAA, especially if it is looking for an extra violation to tack on.
 
MidlifeFlyer said:
Pull out the currency reg and show us where it says, "not the sole manipulator but saved it."

BTW, IMO, if you can really maintain currency solely based on white knuckled students who freeze on the controls requiring you to take complete control away from them (not just an assist), there may be a wee bit of a problem with your teaching technique or you have an unusually high number of students who have no business near airplanes.
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More of an exaggerated joke really.

Though I did have one student that took a very long time for things to click. He got it eventually though, he soloed on the 4th of July and has been landing perfectly for the last few weeks.
 
Another similar question, I have all instrument students and several times when we have been shooting approaches we have gone from VMC to IMC. Can they still log the approach, or better yet can I?


As for the landings I don't log the landings and always give them to the student if they have any part in it however if you do take the controls 50 feet over the threshold every time should they legally be allowed to log it? Who gets to log it???

Today I had my first sign off pass his instrument ride!! :nana2:
 
<<Also, when giving SIM/FTD Dual do yall start another column in your logbook labeled SIM/FTD Dual Given or just don't log it in your logbook - b/c>>

I log it as Dual given and Pilot time. Look up "Pilot Time" in 61.1,
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really!!! i didn't know that. how exactly do you log it? just as flight instructor?

that means i have probably 20 more dual given than i officially have logged, i just figured it didn't count, but i guess i am teaching how to fly the FTD... too much work to go and add those to my logbook or would it be worth it?
 
<<ow exactly do you log it? just as flight instructor?>>

Are you not acting as an "authorized instructor"?

<<would it be worth it?>>

Probably not; the airlines aren't interested in seeing your FTD time. But I'd just add an adjusting entry, to fix the total times.
 
tgrayson said:
<<ow exactly do you log it? just as flight instructor?>>

Are you not acting as an "authorized instructor"?

<<would it be worth it?>>

Probably not; the airlines aren't interested in seeing your FTD time. But I'd just add an adjusting entry, to fix the total times.
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it doesn't count toward totals right, just the "as instructor" column. for some reason i am confused on this.

and i don't want to get an airline job, but corporate has a lot of appeal to me, after i am done having fun instructing.
 
BuickCFI said:
it doesn't count toward totals right, just the "as instructor" column. for some reason i am confused on this.
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The only reason you're confused is that you probably have this concept of "Total Time". The FAA doesn't have any category of time called "Total Time". Two things come close: Pilot Time and Flight Time. You have to decide which of those that your "Total Time" column represents. If it's "Pilot Time", then your sim time counts. If it's "Flight Time", then it doesn't.

I treat that column as "Pilot Time", which is what the FAA asks for on the 8710 form, so I include all my FTD time.

and i don't want to get an airline job, but corporate has a lot of appeal to me, after i am done having fun instructing.
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Don't blame you for that. If you're trying to maximize the amount of "Time" you have, I'd give them "Pilot Time" when they ask for "Total Time", rather than Flight Time. If that's not what they want, it's their fault for asking the wrong question. ;)
 
yeah, right now the Total Time column = Flight Time.

i might end up starting to log that FTD Dual given, haven't decided yet
 
SoCalAprch said:
Another similar question, I have all instrument students and several times when we have been shooting approaches we have gone from VMC to IMC. Can they still log the approach, or better yet can I?
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That's not even close to a similar question. "How much IMC do I have to have in order to log an instrument approach" generates plenty of debate, as does the question of whether a CFI may log the student's approach assuming there is enough IMC.

I talk about the various sides of both questions on my site.

"How much Actual..." is here: http://www.midlifeflight.com/faq/faq.php?s=2#4 and the CFI logging it is here: http://www.midlifeflight.com/faq/faq.php?s=2#5
 
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