Pinnacle???

[Seggy]

If you could have:

1. Given me CRJ Systems training

2. Given me flows, profiles, memory items, and limitations for the CRJ

3. Given me FMS training

4. Given me FTD time

5. Given me Level C/D CRJ sim time

and

6. An interview with Pinnacle with my low time status (but more than 250 hrs)


... then I would have paid you $25k.

FTD/FMS/SIM training is like one millions time different than day in day out line flying.

Yeah most likely you will have no problems getting through training. Hope you have a understanding captains though!

 

[Airdale]

"Nearest suitable airport." Hmmm, how do you determine that? It's not in a book or a chart, it's from EXPERIENCE. Do you take the CRJ into the nearest airport that only has a VOR approach to mins, do you go a little bit further to the place with an ILS but no tower making it a little tougher to make sure help is on the way or do you go to the bigger airport that's 30 minutes flight time away and hope the guy in the back makes it?

This really isn't something experience is going to fix. Some people are born with good decision making, good common sense and leadership skills. And these people, make great Captains. But the worl is full of morons out there who have next to no common sense, that reguardless of how much experience they get, will not make the right choices.

In an emergency with the aircraft, I'd take an ILS over any NPA any day, especially with an engine failure. Nothing like having to do step down fixes with a dead engine. In that case, my nearest suitable field would be one with an operating ILS, within range given the circumstances of the emergency, with sufficient runway length and if at all possible, crash fire rescue - just in case.

Carry on.

 

[Fly4Pay]

What's shuffle off a mortal coil?

'E's not pinin'! 'E's passed on! This pilot is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!

'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the perch 'e'd be pushing up the daisies!

'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig!

'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!!

THIS IS AN EX-PILOT!!

(Monty Python "Parrot" sketch)

 

[Bog]

The current Mesa newbie FO is needing 100 hours of IOE in order to be signed off. Yes, 100. And by the time they're signed off, that's 25% of their flight experience. Give me Greyhound for $1000, please! No experience = you do not belong in the right seat of an airliner. Airline management does not care: we are only "meat in the seat" to them. They do not care about safety; that's just something nice that the lawyers tell them to preach in order to divert the lawsuits.

The furthest I'm looking 'down the road' is still Pinnacle Airlines, so I can return to and stay in Michigan. I plan on staying at Pinnacle for a while.

I believe you mentioned that you're 57. That gives you 2-7 years of being abused at a regional before you have to retire. If I may ask ... why bother? Just to say "I did it?" Just curious.

Yes, I'm angry at Mesa. . .JO specifically.

If we, as a profession, are suppose to increase work rules, pay, and a number of QOL issues. . .it is going to be damn near impossible when establishments such as GIA exists, and a continued number of people say "Ah it's okay. . .since I'm doing it.

1) Always be sure to name JO, not Mesa. Granted, there are plenty of jellyfish flying at MAG, but OJ is indeed to blame for 99% of the ##### sandwich eating at MAG. That scumbag will get his one day. Oh indeed he will, that worthless waste of oxygen.
2) Great point!
A few years ago, one of my cousins in Boston wanted to get a job as an electrician. The electrical workers union has things soooooo tight in that area that he could not work until he was in the union, and that took months just to get in. How's their pay? Great! Working conditions? Great! Will airline pilots ever pull that off? Nope ... too many are in it for ME and not WE.

Ask any UPS pilot about Supply Chain Solutions (sort of UPS) using China Air to fly Asia to Nashville...

Is that UPS freight they bring in? That's 5 runs each week. I'd rather see a Browntail than Air China. That really sucks.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

I believe you mentioned that you're 57. That gives you 2-7 years of being abused at a regional before you have to retire. If I may ask ... why bother? Just to say "I did it?" Just curious.

Nah, you got me confused with the other guy!

I'm in my lower 20s, college grad last year. Still got 40+ yrs if Age 60 rule goes up to 65.


Bog, from your time at Mesa, you knew low time MAPD pilots. Were they taking 100 hrs to get signed off on IOE? Or is this recent?

 

[Gonzo]

I haven't read most of the thread, but I have two questions for you CC.

1. Do you feel you are taking a shortcut?
2. Do you feel like you earned the right to be a FO.

 

[DE727UPS]

"Is that UPS freight they bring in?"

It's a grey issue, it's Supply Chain Solutions, which is a subsidary of UPS. I'm not really sure exactly, but the issue had caused a lot of heartburn until our current contract, where, I think we gave it away. Maybe we got something better in exchange, so I won't knock it. But it bothers me when Cherokee spouts off that nobody cares if you went to Gojet. They would if you put it into terms they understand.

Now, Cherokee will say that doesn't matter as you got the job, so what the heck. I'm just saying it's not honorable and does nothing to improve the lot of the profession.

 

[DE727UPS]

I'll answer number 2 for Cherokee...

He'll say, "if you pass the training, you earned the right....period"

I just wish the bar was higher than that as we all know that training and real world are two different things. Real world is what you don't get from the JetU method.

 

[Tuckster]

I'm the "old man" that wants to be abused for the next few years. Actually, I know it won't be all fun & games but I love flying (since 1972)and after 30 years at career # 1, I'm very excited about career # 2. It may not work out but if it does, I have 2, probably 7 years 121 and then can continue charter etc. I will be doing this for the love of flying. I realize there will be trying times but my approach will cause me a little less stress as I will be looking forward to going to work !!! Wish me luck.

 

[ComplexHiAv8r]

Wish me luck.

All of us at JC (ok almost everyone ) wish you the best luck in getting into the industry! You have to make the decission yourself and what is best for you, we only ask that you think of the profession and raising the bar as you do it.

There is other ways to prepare then spend the money and attend this RJ courses. Search or ask more questions.

 

[Bog]

Bog, from your time at Mesa, you knew low time MAPD pilots. Were they taking 100 hrs to get signed off on IOE? Or is this recent?

I had plenty of "300 hour wonder" FOs while I was a Capt. They all came from MAPD, and could tell me about the systems and about flying. When it came to actually flying, though, they weren't that great. Heck, when I had 300 hours, I was still trying to fly the Seminole well, so flying a CRJ2, 7, or 9 has to be a huge challenge. "Back then," (as recent as December), most newbies were getting 25-50 hours of IOE. Now, as attrition at MAG spins out of control, the IOE gets longer ... and longer ... and longer. 87 pilots quit MAG in May; about half were FOs. As of this week Monday, 50 have left. It'll be another scorcher for the recruiters. Have heartbeat ... will fly. That is scary!

What's worse is the attitude that some bring in. A buddy of mine flew with a newbie in January who was complaining about how bad his sim partner had been and how little experience the guy had. My buddy, the CA, asked how many hours the partner had. The reply: 300. My buddy then asked the whiner how many hours he had: 400. Yes, apparently this 400-hour pilot is now an ace in the airline biz, looking down upon those loooowly 300-hour pilots.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

I haven't read most of the thread, but I have two questions for you CC.

1. Do you feel you are taking a shortcut?
2. Do you feel like you earned the right to be a FO.

1. No, I don't feel like I'm taking a shortcut. In fact, I already meet the minimums for PSA, TSA, and Piedmont. Knowing a few people on the inside, I could easily get an interview with TSA and PSA right now as it stands.

2. "Earned the right to be a FO" is very subjective. Just when do you earn that right?

Is it after you get 500 hrs? 1000 hrs? After being a CFI? or banner tower? or a 250 hr RJ transition course graduate?

What standard do you use?

Answer: there is no fixed standard.

The airline hires you, trains you, and if you pass the training, pass the checkride, and pass IOE, then you are officially flying the line after having been found competent to do so by the airline and FAA. I would say that's the only official measure of if someone has earned the right to be a FO.

Anything else, like "You must CFI to build flight time" is simply an opinion and nothing set in stone.

You might say that to earn the right to be a FO, you need at least 1000 hours and CFI certificates. Someone else might say 1500 hours and an ATP at the minimum. etc. etc.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

What's worse is the attitude that some bring in. A buddy of mine flew with a newbie in January who was complaining about how bad his sim partner had been and how little experience the guy had. My buddy, the CA, asked how many hours the partner had. The reply: 300. My buddy then asked the whiner how many hours he had: 400. Yes, apparently this 400-hour pilot is now an ace in the airline biz, looking down upon those loooowly 300-hour pilots.

That's kinda funny (and pathetic). I feel bad for the Captain who has to put up with an attitude.

Worse thing is I've already seen attitudes here. For example, we had CRJ limitations handed out, and this guy goes in a scorning-type voice, "What else do we have to memorize?!?" Gee whiz, um, memory items, profiles, flows, to name a few. The most dangerous attitude I've seen is "I paid my 28k, so I've already earned the job." And then as a result, refuse to study for tests, and are 'shocked' they failed the exam.

I just wish the bar was higher than that as we all know that training and real world are two different things. Real world is what you don't get from the JetU method.

You do reailze PSA, TSA, and Piedmont are down to C/I/ME and 250 hr minimums?

Who lowered that bar?

What kills me are kids here who speak out against low time F/Os and bridge programs, yet, now that they have 250 hrs and their C/I/ME, they have already submitted their resumes to TSA, PSA, and Piedmont. Ironic, it is. Practice what you preach, they don't.

 

[DE727UPS]

"Who lowered that bar?"

It doesn't matter to me who lowered it, it's the fact that it's getting lowered that bothers me. And the attitude that you just pay your money, at the expense of getting some real world experience, and now you deserve your jet job.

 

[jtrain609]

So wait, CC, are you at JetU right now? I must have missed that post.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

"Who lowered that bar?"

It doesn't matter to me who lowered it, it's the fact that it's getting lowered that bothers me. And the attitude that you just pay your money, at the expense of getting some real world experience, and now you deserve your jet job.

I don't have to pay money if I wanted to go to PSA, TSA, or Piedmont. I already meet their minimums, which are basicaly C/I/ME and 250 hrs. I have a few ins that could easily get me an interview if I wanted.

Doesn't that bother you?

And I didn't cause that bar to be lowered. I don't even have to take an RJ course to work for those three airlines with my low time.

Their minimums are non-existant nowadays.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Check your PMs, jtrain.

 

[Old Pete]

I'm the "old man" that wants to be abused for the next few years. Actually, I know it won't be all fun & games but I love flying (since 1972)and after 30 years at career # 1, I'm very excited about career # 2. It may not work out but if it does, I have 2, probably 7 years 121 and then can continue charter etc. I will be doing this for the love of flying. I realize there will be trying times but my approach will cause me a little less stress as I will be looking forward to going to work !!! Wish me luck.

I'll be the first to wish you good luck. Remember, you're not dead yet. If you love flying, and you want to do what you love, go for it! I'm sure there are plenty of people who have told you of the negatives, so I won't.
good luck.

 

[Champcar]

Take the time to goto the airline you want, not the first one that offers you a job. You do realize that this job is seniority based right? If you go rushing somewhere and 2 years down the road leave cause you hate it on are not moving up....then its time to start all over.

 

[Brand X]

I had plenty of "300 hour wonder" FOs while I was a Capt. They all came from MAPD, and could tell me about the systems and about flying. When it came to actually flying, though, they weren't that great. Heck, when I had 300 hours, I was still trying to fly the Seminole well, so flying a CRJ2, 7, or 9 has to be a huge challenge. "Back then," (as recent as December), most newbies were getting 25-50 hours of IOE. Now, as attrition at MAG spins out of control, the IOE gets longer ... and longer ... and longer. 87 pilots quit MAG in May; about half were FOs. As of this week Monday, 50 have left. It'll be another scorcher for the recruiters. Have heartbeat ... will fly. That is scary!

What's worse is the attitude that some bring in. A buddy of mine flew with a newbie in January who was complaining about how bad his sim partner had been and how little experience the guy had. My buddy, the CA, asked how many hours the partner had. The reply: 300. My buddy then asked the whiner how many hours he had: 400. Yes, apparently this 400-hour pilot is now an ace in the airline biz, looking down upon those loooowly 300-hour pilots.

Ask me again why I don't WILLINGLY fly on regional airlines and UPS has limitations in our contract on flying on regionals.