The mentality of a "Fast-Track" program and low time commercial airline pilots...

meritflyer said:
Not when it's only words. Gettin your A kicked in the back ally is a different story.

Two people sharing words, heated or not, need to work it out on their own.

Just an observation from someone who at one point had you jump into the middle of their discussion.
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Dude it's ah...a message forum, not a private discussion.
 
Seriously guys... get a room or start PMing.

Nobody cares.


There is a lot of good info in this thread but it can probably be pared down to 2 pages and the rest is crap like this.
 
BobDDuck said:
Seriously guys... get a room or start PMing.

Nobody cares.


There is a lot of good info in this thread but it can probably be pared down to 2 pages and the rest is crap like this.
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I don't care either maing! I'm just trying to sort out a complete mess with a bunch of girls and teach indoc this week!
 
Here's what I'm scared of: the guys with the "hurry up and get a seniority number" becoming the "hurry up and upgrade" guys.
 
OldTownPilot said:
On that basis I wonder what the washout rate is for upgrades at the regionals?
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I know we've had issues with guys busting their fed rides here off and on for a while. I think the "mentor program" will probably help with that. Essentially, you'll be doing CA OE twice, once before upgrade class and once afterwards.
 
jtrain609 said:
I made this post a while ago, and I'm going to put it in Matt's thread along with this one. These are my concerns about the industry this days, which is taken much more from a training and education perspective than anything else.

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John,

One of the best post you have had.

I agree with you. Every single day of my life I get asked " So when the hell are you going to the airlines Ryan?"

I get tired of explaining. I just have no appeal towards them at all. I dont know what it is. I could name just about every GA plane out there. I could tell you what year a Cessna is just by looking at it from 20 feet away. When I see an old Pitts or Texas Taildragger I get all excited. I love everything about GA flying, from BSing with the mechanics and helping them time a mag and getting my finger nails dirty to holding on to my cup of coffee while I teach someone how to spin the hell out of a 172.

I love flying the 421 cross country. I love flying in a bunch of small municipal airports talking to the guys in the local FBO's. Aviation is a tight community, its like a firehouse enviroment. I like getting the crew car to get something to eat and seeing a part of the country I would never see had I not been a pilot.

Last week I got the oppurtunity to prop start a couple airplanes. It kinda gave me a high showing another instructor how to do it safely. A lot of the instructors didnt want to learn how to do it which kinda pissed me off.

I guess its these reasons that I have not become an airline pilot. You know me John I love the little guy. I hate the idea of being a seniority number. Not saying that there's anything wrong with that. Its just not for me.

A few months ago I hit NetJet mins which has been a dream job of mine since I started my training. It made me think real hard about which direction I wanted to take my aviation career. REAL HARD! The thing is I have time to think about it.

People need to chill out a bit on this website. Where did that "firehouse" mentality in aviation go?

People ask me all the time which airline they should apply for. Hell, how should I know? I know nothing about 121 flying.
 
I can get you a job flyin' a Chieftain if you want. Real fun flying out of DFW! We can get you some hobbs time so you can go to the airlines BIATCH!

:)
 
jtrain609 said:
I can get you a job flyin' a Chieftain if you want. Real fun flying out of DFW! We can get you some hobbs time so you can go to the airlines BIATCH!

:)
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HA! Remeber those tattoo's we were gonna get of Hobbs meters that instead of numbers it said "milk 'em" :)
 
FlyChicaga said:
Alright, enough. This is getting ridiculous. Seggy does have a point with his posts on this subject, although the point may have been lost in the midst of discussions about a multitude of other things.

The point is, there are problems right now with some of the airline new-hires coming from various training pipelines, and those problems may or may not be a result of exactly what these schools are marketing: Shortcuts.

Whether it is an FBO, university, or training academy, pilots are getting hired with low time and are having difficulty on the line. Notice I said some in the above paragraph. I have flown with some great low-time pilots in my short tenure as a regional Captain, so I'm not going to make a sweeping generalization. I, at one point, was one of these "super-low-time" new hires as well. So what is the problem? Is it the hiring requirements?

What Seggy is saying, and I agree, is that the mindset of "get there quickly, so I can get that seniority number!" carries over when that pilot actually gets hired. Instead of there being a goal of, "I want to learn to fly and develop myself into a well-rounded, professional pilot" the goal is, "I want to be an airline pilot." There is a major difference, because if your goal is the former, then you'll realize that getting hired at an airline is just another opportunity to learn and grow as a professional. The latter is just a goal of achieving a job, and when that job is achieved, then what is next?

That there is the problem. Too many student pilots want to achieve a goal of a job, then don't know where to turn from there. They sit on their hands, and just do the job, rather than continuously working to grow as a pilot. They followed a training route that would get them to their goal, and that is it. Many of these pilots also find out that this job is not as glamorous as they were led to believe, and they leave after just a few years of line flying. Those that do stay just do what they need to do to get by, until they fail a checkride or bust out of upgrade training because they were not prepared. Then, that is their wakeup call.

Now, do all pilots who attend these "fast-track" schools have the mindset discussed above? Absolutely not. We have many examples of pilots here on this very board who approached their training as an opportunity to learn and grow as a professional. Captain_Bob is a great example. Becoming an airline pilot may have been a side goal for these pilots, but the main goal is to develop into a well-rounded, skilled, professional pilot.

The marketing gurus at these schools are not going to sell their product by saying, "Come train here, we will work with you until you are ready for your career as a well-rounded professional pilot." That sounds like hard work! So instead, they sell dreams... "Come train here, zero time to airline pilot in 12 months!"

I think the only thing we can do is get into the hearts and minds of these young (in terms of time and experience) pilots and reverse the trend. Lead them down a path that develops them into professional pilots, not airline pilots. Like I said, there is a big difference.
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Your post here states far better just what I was thinking when I typed my earlier post. Once a pilot gets done with training and on to a job, I could care less where or how they got their training as long as they are a safe, competent and willing to learn pilot. Those who are only trying to achieve the bare minimum that I have seen have come from all sorts of schools and backgrounds. A school that advertises itself as a faster way to the airlines may attract more of the people looking for the easiest way, but I didn't mean that all who attend those are looking for that.

When I get asked about these schools and academies, I caution against full payment up front (result of seeing ATA and TAB Express closing doors suddenly) and anyplace that gets you a RJ type rating as part of the program. Type ratings are not free and the school's costs will be inflated to cover that. Starting off in this industry is hard enough, but being further behind financially with a RJ type rating just isn't worth it.
 
FlyChicaga said:
That there is the problem. Too many student pilots want to achieve a goal of a job, then don't know where to turn from there. They sit on their hands, and just do the job, rather than continuously working to grow as a pilot. They followed a training route that would get them to their goal, and that is it. Many of these pilots also find out that this job is not as glamorous as they were led to believe, and they leave after just a few years of line flying. Those that do stay just do what they need to do to get by, until they fail a checkride or bust out of upgrade training because they were not prepared. Then, that is their wakeup call.

"quote]
That explains a bunch!
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