Ok, which one of you guys...

kellwolf said:
So we'd rather have 1-2 minutes added to the taxi than having our faces planted into the seat back in front of us? I think it's a lose-lose either way. You're gonna get people complaining about both.
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As I mentioned before, I am not talking about max braking every time. But when you land on 18R at the 4000ft mark and the nose is still in the air with 3000 to go, somethings wrong. I am not talking about the 1-2 extra minutes. When you roll out through an intersecting runway, 9 times out of 10 you are going to sit on the other side of the airport until ATC gets another 20 airplanes to cross with you.....:15 min later.

kellwolf said:
One thing at PCL to consider is how we're paid. If we're running 12 minutes late, we might as well roll long. Might actually get PAID for that extra time instead of slamming on the brakes, rushing to the gate and blocking in. Then we just flew 12-15 minutes for free. Wanna see the ultimate screw job?
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So.........it's not about the pax it's just about the pilots wanting every .1 of pay? Remember, pilots serve the pax, it's not the other way around.

When you catch a taxi, do you want the most direct/quickest route? Or would you quietly sit while he circles a few extra blocks? You know, so he can get a few more bucks.

Ultimate S job? That, without a doubt, belongs to the passengers.
 
What if they landed long?? Some of the same things were said right after the SW long landing at MDW. We need details. I've been told by a controller that in his opinion the MU system is flawed. But when I was in training at Skyway, they talked about MU like it was no big deal. Don't know what to think here:banghead:
 
SmitteyB said:
Republic flies the 170 in there...I wonder how much they're pushing the limit with that then....
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Key West is cake for the 170, even when it has a full load.

I once heard a MDA pilot say that the hardest thing at Key West was taxing.

wheelsup said:
We had a mainline US Air guy in our jumpseat the other day - he was talking about how the pilots there don't ever single engine taxi, they keep the APU on for transcons, and always fly lower and slower than filed just to "stick it to the man", all the while burning up money like it grew on trees.

Then you look at SWA pilots, going the extra mile for the company.

Interesting.
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I wouldn't classify the whole pilot group under that, but needless to say that aren't as conservative as before. Of course, the pilots have every right to do that after the way they are being treated by management.
 
I've flown with the CA in this incident. He was one of the smartest and most skilled captains I flew with when I was an FO. He has an impeccable reputation and record at the company.

There are a number of factors in this accident that will come out against the company... and that is all I can say. It's too bad such a good guy got stuck in a crappy situation.


....Not to mention this really really stinks of unreliable Mu readings. The northern midwest small airports SUCK at mu readings and keeping the runways clean. It's no surprise that 9's run off the runway each winter, and unfortunately this was GOING to happen at some point in time with one of our barbie jets. They are runway hogs and TVC has very short runways with unpredictable conditions.

I'm very glad I didn't fly there more than I did in the winter.
 
PeanuckleCRJ said:
I've flown with the CA in this incident. He was one of the smartest and most skilled captains I flew with when I was an FO. He has an impeccable reputation and record at the company.

There are a number of factors in this accident that will come out against the company... and that is all I can say. It's too bad such a good guy got stuck in a crappy situation.


....Not to mention this really really stinks of unreliable Mu readings. The northern midwest small airports SUCK at mu readings and keeping the runways clean. It's no surprise that 9's run off the runway each winter, and unfortunately this was GOING to happen at some point in time with one of our barbie jets. They are runway hogs and TVC has very short runways with unpredictable conditions.

I'm very glad I didn't fly there more than I did in the winter.
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I was always a big fan of the "braking reported fair by pickup truck" in KGFK
 
Denny just said it, and anybody that has been to TVC a time or two knows how crappy that airport can get. It's right next to the lake so there are crazy winds and lots of lake effect snow, there is some terrain off to the west of the airport (dunno why runway they landed on or if it affected them), the runways are not that long and as people have said, who knows about what the actual braking was.

I almost killed myself at this airport during my solo cross country back in my private pilot training days, things get squirly up there fast.
 
jtrain609 said:
Denny just said it, and anybody that has been to TVC a time or two knows how crappy that airport can get. It's right next to the lake so there are crazy winds and lots of lake effect snow, there is some terrain off to the west of the airport (dunno why runway they landed on or if it affected them), the runways are not that long and as people have said, who knows about what the actual braking was.

I almost killed myself at this airport during my solo cross country back in my private pilot training days, things get squirly up there fast.
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This is one area that is going to take some getting used to for me. The VAST majority of my flying has been to 11000' runways in the southern areas of this country (and various brown parts of the world! :) ) Snow and ice (especially on short runways) are going to be a whole new world for me, and it is going to be interesting getting used to it.
 
Those small midwestern airports were notorious for unreliable mu's AND visibilities.

"Hey Minnie, what's the visibility at MQT?"

"What do ya need?"

Aroo?! :)
 
Doug Taylor said:
Those small midwestern airports were notorious for unreliable mu's AND visibilities.

"Hey Minnie, what's the visibility at MQT?"

"What do ya need?"

Aroo?! :)
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I rather like it when they ask before they blurt it out. :)

I can't stand it when the visibility is bouncing between 1000 RVR and 3000 RVR every other minute, and three seconds before you hit the FAF, tower decides to say, "RVR now 1000." :banghead:

I heard of a guy who has been known to key the mic for a couple seconds when tower does this until over the FAF, and then say, "sorry tower, you were blocked, say again?" ;)
 
Screaming_Emu said:
nope, but when you get all pissy and go and correct other people's grammar, then go and screw up a few words yourself, it needs to be pointed out.
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Yeah good point, I just think it's funny.
Going back and forth to see who makes the most grammatical errors.

grammatical....wait

Dam it, I know someone is going to call me out on that one.:insane:
 
NJA_Capt said:
As I mentioned before, I am not talking about max braking every time. But when you land on 18R at the 4000ft mark and the nose is still in the air with 3000 to go, somethings wrong. I am not talking about the 1-2 extra minutes. When you roll out through an intersecting runway, 9 times out of 10 you are going to sit on the other side of the airport until ATC gets another 20 airplanes to cross with you.....:15 min later.
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Not disageeing with that point. If you're not putting it down in the touchdown zone, you're doing something wrong, and it needs to be fixed.

So.........it's not about the pax it's just about the pilots wanting every .1 of pay? Remember, pilots serve the pax, it's not the other way around.

When you catch a taxi, do you want the most direct/quickest route? Or would you quietly sit while he circles a few extra blocks? You know, so he can get a few more bucks.
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If the pax paid per minute or mile, then I'd say you have a valid analogy. Since they don't......

Ultimate S job? That, without a doubt, belongs to the passengers.
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I'm not saying do it if you've got people with tight connects. That would be a screw job. And I'd be willing to say that if my company treated its employees like NetJets treats there's, this wouldn't be happening. Reality is, the company doesn't care about the employees OR the passengers.
 
Seggy said:
Seriously dude, I KNOW what happened last night in TVC. The pilots are NOT at fault.
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While this may be true. If you can't bring facts, don't brag about knowledge.

Also, wait for all the facts to come in, there may be more that you don't know! You don't know the whole story unless you were sitting in that cockpit!
 
ComplexHiAv8r said:
While this may be true. If you can't bring facts, don't brag about knowledge.

Also, wait for all the facts to come in, there may be more that you don't know! You don't know the whole story unless you were sitting in that cockpit!
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I am not 'bragging'. I can tell you the facts but there is a NTSB and FAA investigation going on.

We are working closely with Pinnacle on union issues. Who do you think the crew's first phone call was to after the incident?

ALPA or the hotel van?
 
My first call would be to the hotel van to make sue they kept the bar open until we arrived, then there would be a call to ALPA.:D

Just kidding of course, kinda like my comment about one less plane to staff.;)
 
Seggy said:
I am not 'bragging'. I can tell you the facts but there is a NTSB and FAA investigation going on.

We are working closely with Pinnacle on union issues. Who do you think the crew's first phone call was to after the incident?

ALPA or the hotel van?
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I would call the wife to tell her I was down and ok!

I wouldnt want my legal representation telling others within my company and NOT yet part of the union information about an ongoing investigation. Bet the NTSB and FAA appreciate that fact that the campain towards NOT the pilots fault has started, even if true.
 
ComplexHiAv8r said:
I would call the wife to tell her I was down and ok!

I wouldnt want my legal representation telling others within my company and NOT yet part of the union information about an ongoing investigation. Bet the NTSB and FAA appreciate that fact that the campain towards NOT the pilots fault has started, even if true.
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Nah you got me wrong Tracy. We had a guy ask say that, "ALPA protects bad pilots! Look what happened to the PCL guys yesterday in TVC."

Well with that, the story was briefed on WHAT THE REP COULD SAY. That quickly changed the mind of the guy and we got a card from him!
 
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