Minuteman
Shipoaster
What about the company? Eeek.
http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=d7bd3228-2441-4a0f-9915-cfcadc518058
Ok, which one of you guys...
- Thread starter derg
- Start date
What about the company? Eeek.
After I had "Fun with the V-2532" in ORD a few months ago, my first telephone call was to ALPA Safety, then followed their recommendations. They're not there to 'protect' bad pilots because rotten pilots get fired every day and if you break the rules, the union will not save you.
Lots of folks don't realize that.
Best thing to do when this stuff happens is to call the 800 ALPA number, they'll walk you through the process.
Call your representation, follow their suggestions, talk with the company and then once everything is stabilized, call your spouse. Don't be a fool thinking that "oh, they know it's not my fault, so no harm no foul, right?" There's a lot of guys working at Truckmasters because they acted out of haste.
Lots of folks don't realize that.
Best thing to do when this stuff happens is to call the 800 ALPA number, they'll walk you through the process.
Call your representation, follow their suggestions, talk with the company and then once everything is stabilized, call your spouse. Don't be a fool thinking that "oh, they know it's not my fault, so no harm no foul, right?" There's a lot of guys working at Truckmasters because they acted out of haste.
AmazingPilot
Well-Known Member
It appears in terrible taste to turn the incident that just occured into a union issue. I don't see how you could know what happened already.
I am sure the first thing the captain did after the incident was mail out an authorization card to ALPA.
We all have different priorities in which we do thing following an incident.
Personally my first call would go to my loved ones.
My second call would go to my company, you need to file a report with your company within 24 hours no matter where you work anyway.
Thirdly I would probably call ALPA, since the legal recomendations would be valuable and appreciated.
Another question, keeping this thread on topic:
How would you determine whether or not a safe landing can be made regarding braking actions and winds. Since you said you can't trust MU reports, what would you use that you can trust to determine what is an adequate margin of safety???
Seggy
Well-Known Member
Was that suppose to be sarcastic?
Just wondering or do you think the Captain should have sent his card in?
AmazingPilot
Well-Known Member
Sarcastic, I recommend supporting the union so he/she should have sent it out already. The incident should not have been a deciding factor on whether to support a union coming on property.
HOWEVER
Keeping this thread on topic:
How would you determine whether or not a safe landing can be made regarding braking actions and winds?
Since you said you can't trust MU reports, what would you use that you can trust to determine what is an adequate margin of safety??
Seggy
Well-Known Member
Yes you have NO idea what you are talking about. Pinnacle is ALREADY ALPA. They don't need to send in their cards!
You are digging yourself a hole...
AmazingPilot
Well-Known Member
Seggy
Well-Known Member
AmazingPilot
Well-Known Member
Okay union issues aside,
Rather than spouting off more pro-union propaganda....
Why don't you answer the following questions
I'll ask again for the third time.
How would you determine whether or not a safe landing can be made regarding braking actions and winds??
Since you said you can't trust MU reports, what would you use that you can trust to determine what is an adequate margin of safety???
Rather than spouting off more pro-union propaganda....
Why don't you answer the following questions
I'll ask again for the third time.
How would you determine whether or not a safe landing can be made regarding braking actions and winds??
Since you said you can't trust MU reports, what would you use that you can trust to determine what is an adequate margin of safety???
Seggy
Well-Known Member
No union issues. It is clear that you have NO idea what you are talking about. Anyone who has been employed at Colgan the past month knows there is a union drive to have the authorization cards to be returned.
You said that the Pinnacle Pilot, the first thing he should have done was return his card. Well Pinnacle is ALPA no need to return the cards.
Not that hard to understand, unless you are not part of the Colgan family.
AmazingPilot
Well-Known Member
OKAY then maybe you would like to re-phrase this post.....
And again for the fourth time, I'll ask.
With all respects to keeping this thread on topic:
How would you determine whether or not a safe landing can be made regarding braking actions and winds????
Since you said you can't trust MU reports, what would you use that you can trust to determine what is an adequate margin of safety????
Maybe you don't have an answer to this, and all you can do is lay claim to things without any credible evidence to back any of it up.
Seggy
Well-Known Member
AmazingPilot
Well-Known Member
Oh no I do.
You better hope that
, gets you through upgrade next month.Personally I doubt it will help, but you never know.
FlyChicaga
Vintage Restoration
What the heck are we talking about again?
Mu reports? Personally, I don't like them much. I don't know how many times we'll be landing in Cleveland and the ATIS reports show consistent Mu values such as 42, 40, 41, yet arriving aircraft are saying, "Braking action fair to poor." However, there are times where they are consistent with what is being reported by arriving aircraft. So, I'd say Mu values are just one tool to be used in determining if a safe landing can be made.
I will always value pilot reports from prior arriving aircraft above all else. Of course, you need to take into account what type of aircraft was in front of you, because just like in turbulence, braking action can be variable for different types.
I absolutely take into account runway length, width, grooved or ungrooved surfaces, time since last plow run, and precipitation intensity. If the plows are having a difficult time keeping up with cleaning off wet, slush-type snow, then that might be a signal that the runway is likely to be slippery by the time we put our tires on it. If it is a dry, blowing snow, that signals to me that we might have a less likely chance of poor braking action. Also temperature plays a part, because temperatures around -3C to +1C can make for a more wet snow, especially at places like GRR, SBN, MDW, ORD, CLE, BUF, etc. that are near large bodies of water. Very low temperatures like -15C mean that the snow is usually cold and very frozen, and less likely to be slippery. No absolutes here, of course.
So, while Mu reports can be valuable, there are a multitude of other factors that come into play in making a decision if a safe landing can be made. I am no expert on this stuff, but this is just my personal opinions based on my experiences over the past few years flying quite a bit in the frozen muck. Especially in YYT, YHZ and YQM.
Also remember, even if you can make a safe landing, you always need to make it safely to the gate. I've had many situations this past winter in the left seat where the landing was great, then it became treacherous on the way to the terminal. A few months ago in CLE we actually had zero braking action at a taxiway intersection. We were going maybe five knots, and when I started turning the tiller the airplane kept going straight. Applying the brakes to keep from going into the grass, at first nothing happen, then they caught pavement. Not a good feeling!
I will say, just to keep this "on topic," I am happy to know that if we did slide off a taxiway that horrible day, we have ASAP protection here that would help us learn from it, rather than it be a debilitating blow to our careers. I'm sure the Pinnacle crew in TVC is happy about that as well. Again, it is career insurance, all the collective bargaining rhetoric be damned.
Mu reports? Personally, I don't like them much. I don't know how many times we'll be landing in Cleveland and the ATIS reports show consistent Mu values such as 42, 40, 41, yet arriving aircraft are saying, "Braking action fair to poor." However, there are times where they are consistent with what is being reported by arriving aircraft. So, I'd say Mu values are just one tool to be used in determining if a safe landing can be made.
I will always value pilot reports from prior arriving aircraft above all else. Of course, you need to take into account what type of aircraft was in front of you, because just like in turbulence, braking action can be variable for different types.
I absolutely take into account runway length, width, grooved or ungrooved surfaces, time since last plow run, and precipitation intensity. If the plows are having a difficult time keeping up with cleaning off wet, slush-type snow, then that might be a signal that the runway is likely to be slippery by the time we put our tires on it. If it is a dry, blowing snow, that signals to me that we might have a less likely chance of poor braking action. Also temperature plays a part, because temperatures around -3C to +1C can make for a more wet snow, especially at places like GRR, SBN, MDW, ORD, CLE, BUF, etc. that are near large bodies of water. Very low temperatures like -15C mean that the snow is usually cold and very frozen, and less likely to be slippery. No absolutes here, of course.
So, while Mu reports can be valuable, there are a multitude of other factors that come into play in making a decision if a safe landing can be made. I am no expert on this stuff, but this is just my personal opinions based on my experiences over the past few years flying quite a bit in the frozen muck. Especially in YYT, YHZ and YQM.
Also remember, even if you can make a safe landing, you always need to make it safely to the gate. I've had many situations this past winter in the left seat where the landing was great, then it became treacherous on the way to the terminal. A few months ago in CLE we actually had zero braking action at a taxiway intersection. We were going maybe five knots, and when I started turning the tiller the airplane kept going straight. Applying the brakes to keep from going into the grass, at first nothing happen, then they caught pavement. Not a good feeling!
I will say, just to keep this "on topic," I am happy to know that if we did slide off a taxiway that horrible day, we have ASAP protection here that would help us learn from it, rather than it be a debilitating blow to our careers. I'm sure the Pinnacle crew in TVC is happy about that as well. Again, it is career insurance, all the collective bargaining rhetoric be damned.
Airdale
Well-Known Member
You better hope that
Personally I doubt it will help, but you never know.
Hey Mark, is this what you meant about those Saab guys? :yar: :laff:
I'm only kidding you Amazing Pilot.
Seggy
Well-Known Member
You better hope that
Personally I doubt it will help, but you never know.
Why would I need this
for help to get me through upgrade?
AmazingPilot
Well-Known Member
Hey Mark, is this what you meant about those Saab guys? :yar: :laff:
You'll be surprised what those extra 14 seats will do to one's ego.