"When you see a Pilot, they're not getting paid."
- Thread starter derg
- Start date
meritflyer
Well-Known Member
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
Want to rethink that one or explain yourself a little bit? Because the way you phrased that is absolutely disingenuous to the discussion at hand.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
No, it's not. I think he's talking about his per diem pay which is paid at something like $2.00 an hour. That comment by wheelsup has nothing to do with the conversation at hand and is preying on the fact that the people reading this thread don't know a thing about how airline pilots are paid.
Toonces
Well-Known Member
I see where you are going with that. Yes we are salary up to the point where the airline decides you have done more work than you are being paid for. Then we are hourly employees. I would like to see the airlines recognize our work as more than just burning jet A. I would like to see duty time factored into the monthly gaurantee. Probably won't happen though.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
In fact, let's examine this one a little bit more.
wheelsup says that he's paid by the duty hour. So let's say that his airline is feeling a little saucy and wants to give him a four day trip that consists of four 14 hour duty days, which multiplied by his $35 an hour pay rate (he's a second year FO) comes out to $1960 per trip, or multiplied by 4 trips a month, roughly $7840 a month.
Now, either wheelsup has mispoken or he's trying to decieve some of us here.
Which is it boss? 'Cause I know you're not pulling down mainline pay as a second year regional FO.
wheelsup says that he's paid by the duty hour. So let's say that his airline is feeling a little saucy and wants to give him a four day trip that consists of four 14 hour duty days, which multiplied by his $35 an hour pay rate (he's a second year FO) comes out to $1960 per trip, or multiplied by 4 trips a month, roughly $7840 a month.
Now, either wheelsup has mispoken or he's trying to decieve some of us here.
Which is it boss? 'Cause I know you're not pulling down mainline pay as a second year regional FO.
stuckingfk
Well-Known Member
I think he was factoring in his minimum guarantee, along with per diem (correct me if I'm wrong).
Personally, I do not think pilots should count per diem as income. And pilot's should definitely not say they're geting paid walking around the airport for a whopping $1.60 an hour.
Personally, I do not think pilots should count per diem as income. And pilot's should definitely not say they're geting paid walking around the airport for a whopping $1.60 an hour.
I_Money
Moderator
As an outsider I think you will find a lot of jobs have similar faults - it sounds like a pilot whine. Doctors do not get paid for their paperwork, heck doctors do not get paid if the patient does not have health insurance, Jockeys do not get paid to breeze horses in their morning work out, businessmen do not get paid overtime for taking people out to dinner or to fly out on a Sunday night for a Monday meeting, teachers do not get paid for grading papers - you can always list complaints with every job, it is the overall aspects which is important. No other job you can plan a schedule to take vacations without using vacation time, no other job do you get free global airfare first class, very few jobs you get to eat out as much as pilots, very few jobs are as fun, challanging and rewarding as a pilot and every pilot I know has it pretty good - nice house, good cars, fantastic Home entertainment systems, etc. Overall I think there are many more professions who are a lot more hard done by.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
Fair enough, but guarantee has to do with flight hours, not duty hours.
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
Sure. This month I have 17 days off with a line credit of sub 70 hours, meaning I get paid the "salaried" 75 hours of pay. I don't get just the amount of time I work (70 hours or so).
In reference to working above and beyond - in December I ended up with 17 days off and 107 hours of pay credit. I had two 3-day trips dropped and I picked up another 3 day on top. So I was paid for both the 3-day trips dropped and the 3-day trip I did - hence why I said that we have the chance to get paid above and beyond what are minimum salary guarantee would be.
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
But at AMF you aren't paid per duty hour, neither is Netjets. You are paid a salary, and you work.
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
I said we are paid while on duty, not per duty hour.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
Not quite boss.
You see at my company if I'm at work for 8 hours, then I get paid for 8 hours at $12 an hour no matter what I do. I could fly those entire 8 hours, or I could sit on my butt those entire 8 hours; my pay rate won't change.
Where you could go to the airport and sit ready reserve for 14 hours a day, 5 days a week and ONLY make your min. guarantee, NOT $35 an hour times all those hours that you worked because remember in your original post you said DUTY hours.
DUTY being when you show up on property with the intention of working, to when you leave to go home at the end of the day.
Airline pilots are paid NOTHING like how I'm paid.
You see at my company if I'm at work for 8 hours, then I get paid for 8 hours at $12 an hour no matter what I do. I could fly those entire 8 hours, or I could sit on my butt those entire 8 hours; my pay rate won't change.
Where you could go to the airport and sit ready reserve for 14 hours a day, 5 days a week and ONLY make your min. guarantee, NOT $35 an hour times all those hours that you worked because remember in your original post you said DUTY hours.
DUTY being when you show up on property with the intention of working, to when you leave to go home at the end of the day.
Airline pilots are paid NOTHING like how I'm paid.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
And you obviously don't understand how our pay scale works, but if you want to listen I'll explain it to you.
EatSleepFly
Well-Known Member
I'm supposed to read this and feel sorry for someone? Um, this isn't a communist country. Nobody is forcing anyone to fly for a living.
I agree a lot of pilots are underpaid and overworked (trust me, I know all about it), but I think that is true of a lot of blue collar jobs. Don't like it? Do something else. The original post just seems whiny and overly dramatic to me, but I suppose that shouldn't come as a surprise.
I agree a lot of pilots are underpaid and overworked (trust me, I know all about it), but I think that is true of a lot of blue collar jobs. Don't like it? Do something else. The original post just seems whiny and overly dramatic to me, but I suppose that shouldn't come as a surprise.
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
Where you could go to the airport and sit ready reserve for 14 hours a day, 5 days a week and ONLY make your min. guarantee, NOT $35 an hour times all those hours that you worked because remember in your original post you said DUTY hours.
Not quite, we are paid a 2:1 duty rig, or about $17/hr. Well, not really "paid" but we credit that towards our guarantee, if that makes any sense.
Well you're right, I "obviously" don't understand, but I'm not stupid either. It's not like I intentionally missed the point.
I seem to remember you throwing out a $35,000 salary figure every now and then. Now it's $12/hr?
Explain, and then I'll type my viewpoint.
EatSleepFly
Well-Known Member
I don't even understand how our payscale works.
At least airline pilots get per diem. It blows being gone 15 hours a day and getting paid for 8.
Oh, heck, we still do that!
I think I pulled a 13 hour duty day a last week and got paid for a whopping 4, even though I spent most of that time screaming at dispatch for help, maintenance because we had a thick layer of clear ice over some drooping flaps and operations because we needed more deice fluid to even get the aircraft moved.
What a nightmare. Even cost me an extra night in SLC.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
The pay scale I'm on is a little different, we'll discuss line pilots here.
You said that you guys are paid for duty time, which would mean that you are paid $35 an hour for every hour you spend on duty. That's how we're paid; if we're only duty, we're paid $12. There is no difference between flying and not flying, just a straight $12 an hour. We have our guarantee set on a 40 hour duty week that is predicated on $12 an hour (ish, it's actually $11 and some change I think). Most pilots in my base will never hit 40 hours of duty during the week, but we are still paid by the duty hour.
You are paid by the flight hour, and your guarantee is based on the flight hour. You have two pay rates: $35 and free. In a given trip, if you are on duty for 14 hours and you fly for 6, you will be paid $35 multiplied by 6. If you happen to not make it to 75 (or whatever) hours of flight time in a given month, yes you are paid your min. guarantee for the month.
Our pay scales are COMPLETELY different. If you were paid $35 an hour for every hour of duty you worked you'd be filthy stinkin' rich; and that was what you wrote. Here, I'll quote it for you...
So if you were paid like I was, then you'd be paid $35 an hour for every hour you're on duty. Again, assuming the 14 hour duty day multiplied by 4 days example you'd be paid for 56 hours, but you're not. You are paid, and your guarantee is based off of when you're actually flying the aircraft.
You said that you guys are paid for duty time, which would mean that you are paid $35 an hour for every hour you spend on duty. That's how we're paid; if we're only duty, we're paid $12. There is no difference between flying and not flying, just a straight $12 an hour. We have our guarantee set on a 40 hour duty week that is predicated on $12 an hour (ish, it's actually $11 and some change I think). Most pilots in my base will never hit 40 hours of duty during the week, but we are still paid by the duty hour.
You are paid by the flight hour, and your guarantee is based on the flight hour. You have two pay rates: $35 and free. In a given trip, if you are on duty for 14 hours and you fly for 6, you will be paid $35 multiplied by 6. If you happen to not make it to 75 (or whatever) hours of flight time in a given month, yes you are paid your min. guarantee for the month.
Our pay scales are COMPLETELY different. If you were paid $35 an hour for every hour of duty you worked you'd be filthy stinkin' rich; and that was what you wrote. Here, I'll quote it for you...
So if you were paid like I was, then you'd be paid $35 an hour for every hour you're on duty. Again, assuming the 14 hour duty day multiplied by 4 days example you'd be paid for 56 hours, but you're not. You are paid, and your guarantee is based off of when you're actually flying the aircraft.