UUUUUGHHHHHH today was a huge mess

This is pretty much my last time to get out. If you were in my situation, and wanted to fly more per week, get all your ratings faster, start becoming a CFI faster, at a comparable cost would you leave?

I'll agree, this is pretty much your last opportunity to get out with spending too much extra money. I'm just recommending that you think about it carefully before you make that decision.

Personally, I'm not all that interested in getting anywhere the fastest. I had that attitude up until this semester actually when I had the opportunity to potentially get hired at UND. All I had left was both stage checks, both of which could have been completed before the rest of the hiring workshop. A combination of me getting a little burned out and looking at my class schedule(18-21 credits is too much) for the next 2 years led to me having to turn them down. I let my eagerness to get hired somewhere and build hours get in the way of enjoying aviation and school in general.

If I had gotten hired, which I think I very well could have, I'd be completely miserable I think. Two time consuming jobs plus school whould have been insane.
 
Yeah I will. I basically just want to fly more per week and get all my ratings faster. The school that I am transfering to costs more per year then UND. How much? It will depends if I can secure in state tuition. My dad is retired and they live part time in Washington State and Arizona. I also have held a full time job in Arizona over winter break. So I am not sure if that will play any part to it. How ever, I will not have to attend 5 years to get a Finance degree like I would if I would stay at UND to get a Finance and Commercial Aviation degree.

While over all cost is a factor, my main priority is education quality and time.

I am also considering taking summer classes at a community college to help make up some credits that I will lose by transfering.

This is pretty much my last time to get out. If you were in my situation, and wanted to fly more per week, get all your ratings faster, start becoming a CFI faster, at a comparable cost would you leave?

Ever thought about the situation in which you might not be the type of person to be a pilot, and i am serious. Even though you might want to be one, maybe you just arent made to be one? Think about it.
 
Ever thought about the situation in which you might not be the type of person to be a pilot, and i am serious. Even though you might want to be one, maybe you just arent made to be one? Think about it.

I wouldn't discourage him. Let him figure that out for himself. If one isn't made to be a pilot, they'll figure it out sooner or later. If one is meant to be one, they will succeed.

Maybe there are other circumstances we don't know about that relate to the difficulty he's having.
 
Ever thought about the situation in which you might not be the type of person to be a pilot, and i am serious. Even though you might want to be one, maybe you just arent made to be one? Think about it.

How is this constructive? Saying that Aviation may not be meant for you goes against everything this website was founded on. You are telling me to give up what makes me the happiest. I hope you do not discourage your students when they have several bumps in the road. I can accomplish anything I want in my life. A year ago I was lost over 90 pounds through hard work and dedication. I believe my passion for the things I want will make all my dreams come true.

Why even bump this topic? I wanted to let the conversation die because it is much warn out.

You just wait and see. I will be certified by the end of the semester. Once UND deems me compentent enough to be certified you will not be able to question whether aviation is for me.

Now that I am flying constantly I feel like things are really starting to click. The main weakness I have to focus on is being aware of where I am at all times specifically when transitioning from the last reporting point to the runway as well as when I am taxiing on the runway.

I feel confident that if I had to solo in the practice area, I would have no problems doing so.

BTW, I finished 14 today. Hoping to get 15,16,17 done this weekend.
 
How is this constructive? Saying that Aviation may not be meant for you goes against everything this website was founded on. You are telling me to give up what makes me the happiest. I hope you do not discourage your students when they have several bumps in the road. I can accomplish anything I want in my life. A year ago I was lost over 90 pounds through hard work and dedication. I believe my passion for the things I want will make all my dreams come true.

Why even bump this topic? I wanted to let the conversation die because it is much warn out.

You just wait and see. I will be certified by the end of the semester. Once UND deems me compentent enough to be certified you will not be able to question whether aviation is for me.

Now that I am flying constantly I feel like things are really starting to click. The main weakness I have to focus on is being aware of where I am at all times specifically when transitioning from the last reporting point to the runway as well as when I am taxiing on the runway.

I feel confident that if I had to solo in the practice area, I would have no problems doing so.

BTW, I finished 14 today. Hoping to get 15,16,17 done this weekend.
 
ZUKO - Out of curiosity, are you planning on doing your training in AZ with ASU (Mesa does their training)?

Also, I'm sorry to hear about your complaints with your former instructor, but I'd have to agree that your experience is NOT the norm up at UND. I think your former instructor is just guilty of not making the shift from full-time student (and the partying, free-for-all lifestyle outside of classes and flying) to professional that people rely on and may have been unable to manage all the new tasks. You need to remember that the templates that UND creates are for a minimum number of lessons to be accomplished to finish on time, and not the only days that you can get lessons done. If everyone flew 5 times a week, the need for airplanes and instructors would skyrocket.

More Airplanes = More money to buy them
More money = more cost
more cost = higher aircraft rates

UND works hard to find the happy medium between cost and convenience. The benefit of a state of the art fleet and nationally known and respected school is that airlines and other companies come in and hire UND grads with way less hours than street minimums because they know the product (the students) is better than anywhere else. You may be able to get time faster somewhere else, but you won't necessarily be able to do anything with it.

Don't forget that CFI's can only give 8 hours of Flight training in a 24 hour period. Let's say a CFI has 4 students whose normal launches are 0800 (A) & 1030 (B) MWF and another 2 that are 0830 (C) & 1100 (D) TRS. This instructor only has 4 students (considered part-time). If the 0830 TRS (student C) has to do a long cross country for their course, the MWF students may HAVE to be cancelled so the instructor does not exceed FAR's and risk losing their license and possible fines from the FAA.

EXAMPLE
Instructor flies with student D on Thursday (CFI's first flight of the day) and they flight begins at 1115. The instructor's clock starts to count down from 8 hours. The flight lands at 1305 (oops they are a little late) and lasts 1.8 - the instructor's clock is down to 6.2 hours left.

Student D and the CFI debrief until 1330, and the CFI gets lunch and meets with the next student at 1400.

Student C wants to go GFK-EAU-STP-GFK in a Warrior for their XC. They leave GFK at 1430, and land in EAU at 1730. After fuel, restroom, etc, they takeoff for STP at 1800. They land at 1845, top off, and take the Jag for dinner. They take off for home at 2000 and pick up a tailwind home. The time on the aircraft ends up being 6.0 exactly when the aircraft lands at GFK at 2200 (10 hours until his next flight-duty rest period). The CFI has provided 7.8 hours of Dual that day. He goes home goes to sleep and can start instruction at 0800 Friday morning, right?

WRONG

The instructor only has .2 hours left on his 8 hour clock that started at 1115 the day before that means he is only able to give 12 minutes of instruction before 1115 Friday morning. Student A and student B must be canceled due to duty day restrictions. Could they be rescheduled with a different instructor? Possibly. If they are 102 students-most likely NOT. FAR's dictate that initial training up to the first solo must be performed by the instructor that endorses the solo flight. If a lesson was to be done with a different CFI, the student's normal CFI would HAVE to review ALL new training given on that flight. Cost? A review flight - around $150. Most CFI's would rather cancel the flight and try to get an extra one in here or there than make the student shell out more cash.

Moral of the story is this CFI has 4 students, and some WILL get canceled now and then due to VERY normal circumstances. If the instructor is a full-time instructor (6 new students each semester) and has a couple that did not finish from a previous semester, let's say 3, that instructor has 9 students. If they are teaching courses with XC's early in the syllabus, (221, 325, etc) the cancel scenario may happen to more than a couple students more often. While the instructor should communicate this to the students, it can and will happen. If the instructor wants to factor in some personal time (friends, family, husband/wife, kids) they should be able to. Your doctor doesn't sit at the hospital waiting for you 24/7, neither should an instructor.

I do think that it is funny 3 people in this forum are going to see a screening of a movie together. One was upset their former instructor was unavailable due to needing personal time, but is carpooling with an instructor that tied up a hard-to-get SEMI launch, then canceled it to do something personal.....

ZUKO - I'm happy to hear you've found an instructor that you can coordinate better with. This post has been solely for informing you and some others the delicate balance of things that happen that students don't always see. In the end, everyone will do what they think is best, and will think what they believe is right. While I personally think you may not make the best decision leaving UND for a "get-rich-quick" training program, you will obviously do what you think is right. Maybe you'll stick it out and make sure you never have students that feel the way you feel when you're instructing at UND with your username as your indentifier...I have to believe you picked ZUKO because it's probably part of your last name and you saw all the CFI's at UND had similar things as their ID. I think I may have even marked by books with what I thought my ID was going to be if I got hired. (I found out UND does not re-use ID's and instead may use the a combination of your first and last if the first 4 of your last name was already used....damn!!)
 
ZUKO - Out of curiosity, are you planning on doing your training in AZ with ASU (Mesa does their training)?

Also, I'm sorry to hear about your complaints with your former instructor, but I'd have to agree that your experience is NOT the norm up at UND. I think your former instructor is just guilty of not making the shift from full-time student (and the partying, free-for-all lifestyle outside of classes and flying) to professional that people rely on and may have been unable to manage all the new tasks. You need to remember that the templates that UND creates are for a minimum number of lessons to be accomplished to finish on time, and not the only days that you can get lessons done. If everyone flew 5 times a week, the need for airplanes and instructors would skyrocket.

More Airplanes = More money to buy them
More money = more cost
more cost = higher aircraft rates

UND works hard to find the happy medium between cost and convenience. The benefit of a state of the art fleet and nationally known and respected school is that airlines and other companies come in and hire UND grads with way less hours than street minimums because they know the product (the students) is better than anywhere else. You may be able to get time faster somewhere else, but you won't necessarily be able to do anything with it.

Sounds like a UND lead or manager...that's right, keep the PR going positive! Don't want to hurt UND's image.

"UND students are better than anywhere else"...whatever. I consider myself an excellent pilot, but not snobby enough to say I'm better than the rest.
 
Sounds like a UND lead or manager...that's right, keep the PR going positive! Don't want to hurt UND's image.

"UND students are better than anywhere else"...whatever. I consider myself an excellent pilot, but not snobby enough to say I'm better than the rest.


i seem to recall a similar attitude with ERAU.... "i went to ERAU thus i am awesome".... hows that working out these days?
 
i seem to recall a similar attitude with ERAU.... "i went to ERAU thus i am awesome".... hows that working out these days?

:yeahthat: Studies show that Pepsi is better than Coke. -Pepsi marketing dept. .......Studies show that Coke is better than Pepsi. -Coke marketing dept.

Marketing, marketing, marketing... you get the nice glossy UND Aerospace brochure, believe what it says, and sign up! You can get anyone to believe anything you say with marketing.
 
Yeah I always wondered that. After graduating in May I'm heading back home to do CFI/II, plan on instructing, then staying there for a while to enjoy flight instructing... I've always wondered why everyone's in a hurry to get "that airline job." I think people should concentrate on enjoying the stepping stones along the way to their "dream job".
same here. i am currently loving instructing and have no desire to rush to the next level
 
Read the rest of my last post. I edited it to add more. Jace - I didn't mean UND was the best of the best, only that very few places that DO NOT have contracts with airlines and other companies have students and graduates get offered jobs with much less than street minimums. UND, ERAU, Western Michigan, Purdue, etc all have things like this happen because of the overall superior training and experience gained in Part 141 training environments like these. The 'better than anywhere else' comment refers to top-notch training programs found at schools like UND and ERAU, etc. It is not an "I'm better than you are" mentality...the flying team seems to have reserved that for themselves...(at least they used to when I was there)
 
Read the rest of my last post. I edited it to add more. Jace - I didn't mean UND was the best of the best, only that very few places that DO NOT have contracts with airlines and other companies have students and graduates get offered jobs with much less than street minimums. UND, ERAU, Western Michigan, Purdue, etc all have things like this happen because of the overall superior training and experience gained in Part 141 training environments like these. The 'better than anywhere else' comment refers to top-notch training programs found at schools like UND and ERAU, etc. It is not an "I'm better than you are" mentality...the flying team seems to have reserved that for themselves...(at least they used to when I was there)

It's not that they necessarily have "better" training, it's that the product (the students) tends to be more consistant. The airlines may feel more confident recruiting from large structured flight training programs because they know what they're going to get.
 
If you as the Chief Pilots of airlines that come to UND, I bet the majority will use the word 'better' when they refer to the training. There's a reason the government and airlines pump so much money into some flight schools for research and testing. The reward for them is the students and graduates are more familiar and comfortable with new technologies and methods.
 
By the way Jace - if I'm thinking of the same guy you mentioned you had a stage check with in an earlier post that came off big headed, you were probably lucky to do a 222 check with that guy. He had a lot of real-world experience and I have a bunch of buddies that had that guy as their instructor and said he knew everything. 2 of those buddies were my instructors that had him as their instructor. If he did a 222 check with you, he probably pulled you off the wait list onto his schedule to help you out. I think he only did like multi checkrides and instructor stuff.
 
I do think that it is funny 3 people in this forum are going to see a screening of a movie together. One was upset their former instructor was unavailable due to needing personal time, but is carpooling with an instructor that tied up a hard-to-get SEMI launch, then canceled it to do something personal.....



What’s wrong with switching around the days that it was scheduled on? I didn’t know if I would be able to make it to the screening or not, but saw that for Friday there was a Semi launch available to do that X/C. The student is still doing a lesson on Thursday, and is scheduled to fly on Friday.

Yes, those Semi launches are very tough to come by (especially at this time in the semester, and it’s only going to get worse). But, I just checked AIMS, and the launch time that I switched it for is now filled. It was just moved to the next day (and wasn’t canceled the day before in AIMS). Is there anything wrong in doing that?

I work a ton, (and love every minute of it). Like you said, you need to have time for yourself every now and then. My students are well ahead of template, and I do everything that I can for them.
 
Nothing wrong at all. Just using you as an example of having a personal life while managing your students. You took them into account while trying to get yourself a night off. Everyone does it. ZUKO had just been upset earlier that his instructor wasn't able to schedule a time to fly because the CFI had already planned a personal activity.

Just an example of shi+ happening (from the student's standpoint) but understanding that it does. I made sacrifices to work instead of other things I'd rather been (or should have been) doing. I also sacrificed student's being happy getting 6 lessons done a week so that I could spend time on other things.

OTP is a goal, not a reason to sacrifice you, your life, and your loved ones.
 
:yeahthat: Studies show that Pepsi is better than Coke. -Pepsi marketing dept. .......Studies show that Coke is better than Pepsi. -Coke marketing dept.

Marketing, marketing, marketing... you get the nice glossy UND Aerospace brochure, believe what it says, and sign up! You can get anyone to believe anything you say with marketing.

Pepsi is better.

Can this thread die yet?
 
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