NWA Ground Crews Walk Off The Job at MSP

Murdoughnut's posts are hilarious! When I read his subtle put-downs like:
If I had more time I'd try to put together a sock puppet play to explain it to you, but alas, I do not.
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it reminds me of the good times in Philosophies & Ideologies 2001. Dude, you definately were college professor material!
 
GaTechKid said:
Murdoughnut's posts are hilarious! When I read his subtle put-downs like:


it reminds me of the good times in Philosophies & Ideologies 2001. Dude, you definately were college professor material!
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I'll steal a page from a colleague's book...

LOL!!!

That is all.
 
Murdoughnut said:
Vote with your feet, that's all I'm saying. I think storming off the job for 20-minutes is juvenile. If the conditions are that bad, tell them to go &%$! themselves and walk. I just feel that somone who works hard and does a good job shouldn't work in an environment where they're treated like scum - unless they have absolutely no reasonable opportunity to pursue something better. Why be the company's bitch while they "negotiate". If they open up one day and no one shows up for work, then you'll have your justice. The scores of FOs leaving the regionals seem to have it right.

It must be more of a Texas thing, as we have next to no unions there.
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I don't see anywhere that they "stormed" off the job for 20 mins. They planned a nice little 20 minute group "safety" meeting. There were barely delays and no cancelled flights. I mean if they wanted to do some damage, they could have made it longer!
I'm getting into the conversation a tad late but, I've been been there. I was a ramper for AA and Comair. AA was a cake walk compared to Comair in MCO. That was the hardest I've woked in my entire life. Being shorthanded sucks! You say that anyone can do the job. I say probably. But Like Tim said, how many of them can satisfactorily pass the three required tests. When I got hired at AA, there were twelve of us. Only one is still there to this day. At Comair i saw people come and pretty much all of them went. Why? Because the job was too hard, didn't pay enough, the weather sucked, as well as the hours. So no, not everyone do the job of a ramper.
 
H46Bubba said:
I don't see anywhere that they "stormed" off the job for 20 mins. They planned a nice little 20 minute group "safety" meeting. There were barely delays and no cancelled flights. I mean if they wanted to do some damage, they could have made it longer!
I'm getting into the conversation a tad late but, I've been been there. I was a ramper for AA and Comair. AA was a cake walk compared to Comair in MCO. That was the hardest I've woked in my entire life. Being shorthanded sucks! You say that anyone can do the job. I say probably. But Like Tim said, how many of them can satisfactorily pass the three required tests. When I got hired at AA, there were twelve of us. Only one is still there to this day. At Comair i saw people come and pretty much all of them went. Why? Because the job was too hard, didn't pay enough, the weather sucked, as well as the hours. So no, not everyone do the job of a ramper.
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It's like I said about truck drivers earlier - anyone can do the job, but few want to. If that's truly the case with ground crew, then salaries should increase naturally so that the airline can keep a sufficient crew on staff. If they're lowering wages, it seems to me that they're not having any problem finding people to staff the positions.

And to the earlier point, Texas definitely has an anti-union culture. That's not to say there aren't unions, such as SWA, but hell, we're one of the few states that's consistently rejected the idea of a teacher's union - and the rejection has come primarily from teachers. Unions have always been more of a midwestern phenomena, spreading to the east and west coasts as well.
 
H46Bubba said:
. So no, not everyone do the job of a ramper.
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I don't think anyone is disputing that. M's point is that enough people do, which will keep pay from raising to meet supply.

For a good example of this look at what recently happened at flight express. They had to raise wages in order to get butts in those old C-210 seats. It's a non-union, 'cheap' company and they raised wages 20%+ which now allows for someone on property 12 months to be making ~$50k.

Unions artificially raise pay for the job - good for the workers (at first) - bad for capitalism.

Keep in mind I am a former Teamster and current ALPA.
 
That would be because everybody wants to fly shiney jets with 600 hours. A lot of freight company's are having problems filling seats right now and they'd lower their mins too but the FAA won't let them.
 
Murdoughnut said:
Vote with your feet, that's all I'm saying. I think storming off the job for 20-minutes is juvenile. If the conditions are that bad, tell them to go &%$! themselves and walk. I just feel that somone who works hard and does a good job shouldn't work in an environment where they're treated like scum - unless they have absolutely no reasonable opportunity to pursue something better. Why be the company's bitch while they "negotiate". If they open up one day and no one shows up for work, then you'll have your justice. The scores of FOs leaving the regionals seem to have it right.

It must be more of a Texas thing, as we have next to no unions there.
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Bwahaha no unions in Texas? Police, autoworkers, teachers, pilots, postal workers, cable guys, electricians, plumbers, and many other professionals are all unionized here like they are everywhere else. Good for these rampers I say. I'm glad they have the spine do it. If those rampers walked off the job it would take NWA weeks if not months to replace them. They could easily shut the place down. Management is trying to walk that fine line with labor....pissing off the workers as much as possible without having them walkout. I hope it comes back to bite these corrupt bankruptcy profiteering goonish execs in the @ss when it all comes crashing down.
 
Alchemy said:
Bwahaha no unions in Texas? Police, autoworkers, teachers, pilots, postal workers, cable guys, electricians, plumbers, and many other professionals are all unionized here like they are everywhere else.
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And the beloved Dallas Cowboys are in a union too!

Funny story. We had a guy from a non-union carrier on the jumpseat trying to preach about the evils of unions.

The captain looks back and says, "Hey, here you're getting a free ride in the cockpit as an 'observer' enroute to work. Who do you think pushed for your ability to do that?"

Silence.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
I hope they got a lot of support from pilots on the radio. Quite frankly i'd sit there for as long as I needed to as that was going on.
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Umm, yeah. You had better believe these pilots were calling dispatch, "God damn bleep bleep bleep rampers! I got a boat load of people and we're stuck here because bleep, bleep, bleep...."
 
Doug Taylor said:
And the beloved Dallas Cowboys are in a union too!

Funny story. We had a guy from a non-union carrier on the jumpseat trying to preach about the evils of unions.

The captain looks back and says, "Hey, here you're getting a free ride in the cockpit as an 'observer' enroute to work. Who do you think pushed for your ability to do that?"

Silence.
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Ahhh, yet another reason to pull for the cowboys...then again I guess every team is in the union :)

And pushing anti-union politics on the jumpseat? Could that be the ultimate faux pas? Observe the sterile and keep the discussion to sports, tech toys, or cars...can't go wrong.
 
Alchemy said:
Ahhh, yet another reason to pull for the cowboys...then again I guess every team is in the union :)

And pushing anti-union politics on the jumpseat? Could that be the ultimate paux pas? Observe the sterile and keep the discussion to sports, tech toys, or cars...can't go wrong.
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Oh, I've seen worse.

Flying a guy from SMF to SLC, he had the audacity to say he'd do our jobs for half of what they're paying us.

Then the captain says, "You're already doing it!"
 
Alchemy said:
Bwahaha no unions in Texas? Police, autoworkers, teachers, pilots, postal workers, cable guys, electricians, plumbers, and many other professionals are all unionized here like they are everywhere else. Good for these rampers I say. I'm glad they have the spine do it. If those rampers walked off the job it would take NWA weeks if not months to replace them. They could easily shut the place down. Management is trying to walk that fine line with labor....pissing off the workers as much as possible without having them walkout. I hope it comes back to bite these corrupt bankruptcy profiteering goonish execs in the @ss when it all comes crashing down.
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Far fewer than in other places - and I know of no teachers unions in Texas.
 
Are you sure about that?

The Texas State Teachers Associate sure sounds like a union...

ALPA is an "association" as well, but you know that I know that you know it's a union.
 
Murdoughnut said:
Far fewer than in other places - and I know of no teachers unions in Texas.
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Yeah, there's no such thing as the Texas Federation of Teachers. This website certainly doesn't exist.

http://tx.aft.org/

Nor does the Texas State Teachers Association exist. And this website is fiction, too.

http://www.tsta.org/

Nor are there unions for the Houston Texans, the Houston Astros, the Houston Rockets, the San Antonio Spurs, the Dallas Stars, the Texas Rangers, or the Dallas Mavericks.

But you know what, there is at least one commie who's a member of a union, so I guess you're kind of right.

Only thing is, Houstonians cheer for him.
 
Murdoughnut said:
I'm from the south, where we don't rely on unions to whine and complain on our behalf. If things are that bad, you quit.
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Are you speaking for everyone in the south? What other traditionally Southern beliefs do you have? I mean, since it's obviously a given . . .
 
mtsu_av8er said:
12 months? You can hold one of those runs after 3 weeks!! ;)
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The payrate won't allow for it. I actually misstepped, the new payrate at 36 months - $26,325 - $49,140 @ $13.50/hr. 12 months would be like $45k @ max duty day, $12.50/hr. Still good, although you have to be willing to give up 42% of your entire life for that money.

(as I get up to eat breakfast to go get some door busters...ugh!)
 
Murdoughnut said:
Far fewer than in other places - and I know of no teachers unions in Texas.
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My wife is a teacher here in Texas and is in a union. Compared to her teachers union in New York State, it is a very weak one. They rarely, if ever, fight for anything. Consequently, her salary is significantly lower than when we were in upstate NY. She has a masters degree and a decent amount of work towards a doctorate (Masters being something you have to have to continue teaching past 5 years in NY). In NY, your salary goes up a lot for every extra credit you take, and degree earned. Here they just give you an extra grand for a masters and that’s it. Her bennies are the worst part. Both her and I were on her medical insurance and paid next to nothing for full coverage medical, dental, and eye. In Texas, she pays 4 times what she paid in New York for both of us, for just herself. If the teachers union in NY did not see salary go up a good deal every 5 years or so, they would threaten a strike, and actually strike about every decade. Here, that kind of thing is unheard of.
 
LoadMasterC141 said:
My wife is a teacher here in Texas and is in a union. Compared to her teachers union in New York State, it is a very weak one. They rarely, if ever, fight for anything. Consequently, her salary is significantly lower than when we were in upstate NY. She has a masters degree and a decent amount of work towards a doctorate (Masters being something you have to have to continue teaching past 5 years in NY). In NY, your salary goes up a lot for every extra credit you take, and degree earned. Here they just give you an extra grand for a masters and that’s it. Her bennies are the worst part. Both her and I were on her medical insurance and paid next to nothing for full coverage medical, dental, and eye. In Texas, she pays 4 times what she paid in New York for both of us, for just herself. If the teachers union in NY did not see salary go up a good deal every 5 years or so, they would threaten a strike, and actually strike about every decade. Here, that kind of thing is unheard of.
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No legitimate teachers union is what I should have said - i.e., no NEA. Texas teachers (in metro areas anyways) make better than the national average, with some of the lowest cost of living in the country.
 
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