Shiny Jet Syndrome

n57flyguy said:
Interesting, I curious to know about a college degree. Do you know if he is pursuing one now? I know I've seen job postings of reginols for an FO that only require a high school diploma, but I would imagine you need a degree to become a captain.
Click to expand...


Yeah, no degree needed to be Captain. Now if he ever wants to move on to anything else lets hope he needs a degree for that.

Last I heard he was doing college online. I guess it works but I don't know how you get hook it up with a hot co-ed in her dorm room while being online? Not sure if you get those other college experiences either while online. To me college was more than books and exams.
 
Timbuff10 said:
Yeah, no degree needed to be Captain. Now if he ever wants to move on to anything else lets hope he needs a degree for that.

Last I heard he was doing college online. I guess it works but I don't know how you get hook it up with a hot co-ed in her dorm room while being online? Not sure if you get those other college experiences either while online. To me college was more than books and exams.
Click to expand...

Wow, I never knew that. I think I got confused on the to go somewhere else part, you need a degree. To me, I hope college is only books and exams. I hate distractions, unfourtunitely they happen.
 
n57flyguy said:
To me, I hope college is only books and exams.
Click to expand...


What is the point of going then? Go to football games, play sports, meet girls, guys, whatever. Join clubs, get a cool job while in college, ROTC? Be a TA.... Just whatever you do, don't buy your friends!
 
Timbuff10 said:
What is the point of going then? Go to football games, play sports, meet girls, guys, whatever. Join clubs, get a cool job while in college, ROTC? Be a TA.... Just whatever you do, don't buy your friends!
Click to expand...

yeah I should have restated it, I want to avoid major distractions (mainly aviod a GF). Not big into school sports, I part of a club now. I'll definitely need a job, so that leaves me with a busy schedule anyway. Nothing is final, I know already I'm going to need to focus and keep my priorities straight, I think I can do it with friends and hobbies and flying thrown in there.
 
My advise - Live on campus in at least two different dorms. You will meet so many people like that.

Also, don't avoid a GF, you will regret it later on. Now avoiding getting married in college is probably a good idea.

I was a Resident Advisor in college and it opened me up to things and experiences I never thought I would see. Very interesting job to say the least and the cool thing is, room and board was free thus making college very affordable. It's not the tuition that gets you anymore, its the cost of living.
 
Timbuff10 said:
My advise - Live on campus in at least two different dorms. You will meet so many people like that.

Also, don't avoid a GF, you will regret it later on. Now avoiding getting married in college is probably a good idea.

I was a Resident Advisor in college and it opened me up to things and experiences I never thought I would see. Very interesting job to say the least and the cool thing is, room and board was free thus making college very affordable. It's not the tuition that gets you anymore, its the cost of living.
Click to expand...

Im not sure, I'll have to wait and see!
 
Hacker15e said:
Or it's a way to get jet PIC quickly (or quicker than the "traditional" routes), and they're willing to suffer just about anything (everything that's "wrong" with flying for a regional) to make that happen.
Click to expand...

I would say some regionals are a place where you have balance. PIC doesn't come as quickly as it would at say the cargo carriers (example: USA Jet) but IMO the schedules and flexibility are greater than that of those companies.

I wouldn't say RJ pilots are willing to suffer just about "anything" to make it happen. What do you think about living on a 20 day/month 25 minute beeper callout around Detroit while having to load the Falcon full of freight? I would say that would be a low QOL. Others would say screw it, it's more work but more pay (mid $30's base as a Falcon FO first year).

Now, there are regionals out there that don't offer a great QOL and have lower upgrades. Pick your poison ;). Unless you are great at networking you most likely will have to work your way up in some fashion to the better paying jobs. Some places it will take you more time to meet the majors' requirements but you might enjoy a better QOL while there. I guess it's sorta like ripping a bandaid off - you can do it fast or slow. Either way it hurts :D!

I just wouldn't go lumping anyone who flies a jet into one of those that would take a pay cut to be there. Jet regionals generally pay more and offer a better QOL.
 
I will take a paycut if I leave my CFI job for a regional. (As will most, if not all, of my co-workers.) It's hard to believe that any 1st year FO will make more than his/her previous job. QOL is in the eye of the beholder. Your third point hits home for me.
Click to expand...

If you make more than $23000 then you will take a paycut during the first year. Second year at almost all jet regionals will almost certainly be a payraise for flight instructors, unless you have one of the few really nice instructing gigs. As far as QOL goes I'd also venture to say that on average a regional will offer more days off, less stress, and possibly a shorter day. As a flight instructor I worked 8-14 hours a day, 7 days a week. As a 1st year FO I worked 5-12 hours a day, 4 days a week. That's a huge difference.
 
NJA_Capt said:
This line of thought seems to permeate the industry these days. I don't get it.

1) Why is it so important to "get it quickly?"

2) Who is telling them that they must "get jet PIC quickly?"

Hopefully you are going to have a 20-30 year career. Why the hurry?


(Other than the schools that want their money...)
Click to expand...

My question to those who want TPIC quickly...

Where are you planning to GO with it?

And I'm not asking hat in a mean way, either. SWA, UPS and FEDEX aren't going to hire everyone with TPIC. There aren't enough seats.

Besides the three above, what company would you want to work for, and why? Or are many really hoping for the three above? Maybe CAL? NetJets?

I really am just curious. Where do you hope the TPIC will take you? (Besides Captain's regional payscale) Or, are you staying put?
 
fo4ever said:
And I'm not asking hat in a mean way, either. SWA, UPS and FEDEX aren't going to hire everyone with TPIC. There aren't enough seats.
Click to expand...

True, but without it you don't have a seat period. I'm personally gunning for SWA since it's the airline I have most of my "ins" with and is my best option.
Besides the three above, what company would you want to work for, and why? Or are many really hoping for the three above? Maybe CAL? NetJets?
Click to expand...

SWA and FedEx are my top two. Other than that, it's a wait and see type deal. For me, a job at a stable major, even one with a sub-par MAJOR contract is superior to a regional. The exception is if you're a 10 year CA at a regional and get your pick of lines. Those guys aren't going for just any job right now, at least not the ones I've flown with here. One I talked to has gotten himself in debt so badly he can't afford the pay cut to start at a major as an FO, and the others are enjoying the QoL their seniority gives them and allows them to work their other jobs, like construction and real estate.

Now, am I gonna sell my sould for a quick upgrade? Hell, no. I'm flying for the absolute minimum I will fly a regional jet for right now.
 
B767Driver said:
I don't think you are looking back far enough to accept the animosity. It's the working conditions that pilots accepted at those airlines that knocked the wind out of the better compensated airlines, or for professional piloting in general. Alot of pilots could not get hired by the better compensated airlines for one reason or another...so to get a job...they'd work for less. That's just how it goes....bitter, bitter, bitter animosity for those who've lost millions of dollars in compensation and retirement benefits to those who've gone to work for "substandard" benefits...and is reflected in the aforementioned piece of literature.
Click to expand...

I disagree. It was the marketplace that knocked the wind out of the "better compensated airlines". People got tired of paying huge fares for lousy service. Southwest, JetBlue, and the Internet gave customers a choice, and they took it. In order to survive, the majors had to change the way they did business, hence the changes in the piloting profession that are causing so much bitterness.
 
I believe the marketplace had SOMETHING to do with it, but not that much. The problem lies in the fact that a lot of management looks at labor as a cost to be cut instead of an investment. They'll pay millions for a 787 since it's an investment, but they want the pilots that fly them to work for as little as possible. Truth is, that 787 investment isn't going anywhere without the crew to fly it, so they need the crew. Instead of trying to offer things that will keep pilots happy and reduce turnover, they cut wages and benfits. In the end, they break even since pilots leave and they have to spend thousands of dollars training replacements. My airline is spending insane amounts of money on training b/c they can't keep FO past a year or two. If they would raise the wages a little, they'd actually SAVE money.

IMO, you can't compare SWA et al to the majors. When was the last time SWA flew into Erie, PA or White Plains, NY? SWA can cherry pick the most profitable routes while the majors service smaller, less profitable markets to make connections. The reason the majors' prices are higher (and you might be shocked to find that their prices on some routes are LOWER than SWA/jetBlue/Airtran) is b/c of the load factors. They can't make money (or even break even) with a half full plane on discount fares. SWA has to have a plane 80% full to break even, so they pick markets that they know they can reach that factor and base the prices accordingly and plan the number of flights accordingly.
 
skydog said:
I disagree. It was the marketplace that knocked the wind out of the "better compensated airlines". People got tired of paying huge fares for lousy service. Southwest, JetBlue, and the Internet gave customers a choice, and they took it. In order to survive, the majors had to change the way they did business, hence the changes in the piloting profession that are causing so much bitterness.
Click to expand...

I think his point is that the customers had a choice of lower fares because the pilot labor was working for so much less, thus allowing the company to offer lower fares while still turning a profit.

You saw the same thing with the regional players recently. ACA = too expensive, along comes Mesa/Skywest. Same thing with AWAC, and why Comair's flying is now being done by Chautauqua.

Here's a question, how compeitive do you think my company will be in RFP's if TSA/Pinnacle/Mesa FO's, doing the same thing I do, at the same longevity, are making 50% LESS THEN ME?

Now, I made the choice to come to a company with a better contract, so I'm not complaining. BUT, if my company loses its flying because, in part, another ALPA carrier's contract is that much worse then mine, you can bet I'm gonna be bitter. We're all ALPA carriers, there should be a "base rate" with one contract rate set and a "me too" clause for all our ALPA contracts - when one carrier gets a raise come contract time, everyone gets the raise. We have somthing similar in our current (concessionary) contract which gave me a ~$1.00 raise last March due to recalculating industry average payrates.

ALPA needs to start acting like a real union.
 
GaTechKid said:
The desire to make more than minimum wage is the largest reason why people leave the instructing world as quickly as possible. It has nothing to do with whether you're flying a jet or a turboprop, and since most entry level airlines fly regional jets then that's what the new-hires fly. SJS implies that pilots accept regional jobs(and the associated low wages) because they get the glamour of flying a new jet. That's BS. Pilots accept regional jobs because either 1) it pays significantly more money than their previous job, 2) it affords a better QOL than their previous job, or 3) it contains a base in a location that they wish to live in.
Click to expand...

I agree w/ this 100%

When I made the move from GA to 121........it was an improvement in all 3 of those points. As pathetic as pay is in the regional level, it was still a PAYRAISE for me. So, the thinking is I should've continued to instruct for an additional 3-4 years "to pay my industry dues" when I could move closer to home, get a payraise and improve my QOL.........That's ridiculous.

I made the move from GA to 121 and I'm happy I did so. I'm not some 23 year old kid w/ SJS, I've got life experience (lots)....I've payed my dues already....in life.

BTW......to prove I don't have SJS.....I'm a TP driver. :p Do I want to eventually fly a jet....OF COURSE. Am I content to learn more about the industry flying a TP.....OF COURSE. My planned next move will not be into an RJ......it's gonna be into something bigger.....at least that's the plan.
 
I agree with Cruise, except I'm making a tad less now than I was instructing. Granted, I'm not flying 100+ hours a month anymore. Upside is I don't live at the airport, so it's definately an upswing on the QoL. Then again, I was getting paid to teach ground as well as flight. :)

Main reason I made the jump was to get home ASAP. My wife and kid were in one state and I was in another, so I was gunning to get out fast. It just worked out that I got hired at a regional that I could get based in my hometown. I had no problems moving to a base where whatever regional hired me was located, but this just really fell into place for me.

Now, with our contract negotiations going on, I'm starting to see SJS rear its head. Not with the guys that have actually been flying for more than 6 months, but mainly from the new hire guys (and, not surprisingly mostly from the lower timers). "OMG, we HAVE to give the company what they want! We HAVE to get those 76 seaters! We can't let Mesaba or Compass get them!"
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top