Shiny Jet Syndrome

After paying 100's of dollars and hour to fly a Duchess around with engines 300 hours past TBO your damn right Im looking forward to getting paid to fly a Shiny jet.

Since wanting to fly a jet is so bad, how about Ill fly a turbo prop for 15 dollars an hour out of DIA, is that better for the industry.
 
theres plenty of respectable turboprop jobs out there, and plenty of super low paying jet jobs.

what the heck were you doin in an airplane with its engines 300 hours past tbo anyway
 
DE727UPS said:
"For the most part people who go to ATP want to start a an airline career. Why not market it like that?"

There is a difference between wanting an airline career and encouraging people that they need to go from zero to an RJ in sixth months. I think Airdale's point that the system he was in led him to his SJS disease is well taken.
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I think this is the exactly the point. An airline career used to be elusive and at best required a certain level of progression that ensured a degree of maturation prior to employment in a Part 121 jet cockpit. To a large degree...with the marketing agreements of the "flying academies"...a large percentage of airline jobs are now basically "ab-initio". The typical progression into the Part 121 cockpit has been bypassed.

"But", you say, "if I have to spend 6 years CFI'ing and freight dawging it...I'm not getting into this business." There-in lies the SJS, IMO. The attitude that I'll pay to play into the jet job...so I don't have to do all that crummy other flying for 4, 5 or 6 years.

Spending 5 years improving your skills is great preparation for a an airline career. Anyone enthusiastically embracing this career field should enjoy their journey during that time period. I'm sure there are airline pilots out there now who have flown basically 2 types of airplanes prior to an RJ....a light single and a light twin...with no other experience than being a CFI.

As DE727UPS stated...Zero to RJ in a couple of years...is somewhat insulting to some people out there. And it's not really the pilot/applicants fault...they are just moving expeditiously into a career field that want to enjoy as quick as possible.

For our profession & industry to allow such practices, however, is fairly laughable, IMO.

I look at a company like NetJets...and think they have a very respectable hiring philosophy. I think it's 2500 hours min...for employment. And that's to fly a small business jet.
 
Well, what about the argument that RJ's are so advanced that you don't need much experience to be airline pilot anymore? I've heard that one a few times. There's a new world order now and, if you go to the right flight school, you'll be perfectly competent to be a jet F/O at 300 hours. I mean, people have written articles about it in Flight Training magazine...
 
I'd agree with that until the automation breaks. Then you've got a whole lotta airplane in your hands that you didn't expect to. I think pilots should be trained and ready to handle the worst possible scenario: night, IFR to mins with the CA unconcious and no AP. If something goes wrong, and you freeze or look at the CA saying "Uh, what now?" you don't belong there.
 
The desire to make more than minimum wage is the largest reason why people leave the instructing world as quickly as possible. It has nothing to do with whether you're flying a jet or a turboprop, and since most entry level airlines fly regional jets then that's what the new-hires fly. SJS implies that pilots accept regional jobs(and the associated low wages) because they get the glamour of flying a new jet. That's BS. Pilots accept regional jobs because either 1) it pays significantly more money than their previous job, 2) it affords a better QOL than their previous job, or 3) it contains a base in a location that they wish to live in.
 
What scares me the most is the fact that a kid with a pile of parents (or Sallie mae's) dough can go form zero to hero in an RJ in 190 hours at a 141 school. Said school snags a partnership with a regoinal to get their kids out and the next batch in, while said regional gets young FOs that can't go anywhere and have to work for what the regional offers. These kids get their hand held through ground, systems and the sims, because it is good business to have these kids pass. There will be an accident with significant loss of life caused by this and until blood is shed the FAA will turn a blind eye to this problem. I was hoping FLG3701 might have brought a change to the minimums to be an 121 FO, but unfourtunately it did not happen. I am afraid it will also take blood to be shed for the duty and rest requirements to change. Hopefully it does not, but if it has to, one might hope that it happens soon and in the same accident.

I dont want this to be taken that OTP wants an accident to happen, But the FAA (and TSA) is a reactionary group, and for the sake of all involved it would be better if it was one crash instead of two.

I used the word kid, because at 18 and fresh out of High school nobody is mature enough to fly a jet around. Heck my brother just turned 18 and he is barely mature enough to handle a 172.
 
OldTownPilot said:
These kids get their hand held through ground, systems and the sims, because it is good business to have these kids pass.
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Never been through any 121 FO training, but I don't believe this. Does anybody else support this statement?

GaTechKid said:
Pilots accept regional jobs because either 1) it pays significantly more money than their previous job, 2) it affords a better QOL than their previous job, or 3) it contains a base in a location that they wish to live in.
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I will take a paycut if I leave my CFI job for a regional. (As will most, if not all, of my co-workers.) It's hard to believe that any 1st year FO will make more than his/her previous job. QOL is in the eye of the beholder. Your third point hits home for me.
 
GaTechKid said:
SJS implies that pilots accept regional jobs(and the associated low wages) because they get the glamour of flying a new jet. That's BS. Pilots accept regional jobs because either 1) it pays significantly more money than their previous job, 2) it affords a better QOL than their previous job, or 3) it contains a base in a location that they wish to live in.
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Or it's a way to get jet PIC quickly (or quicker than the "traditional" routes), and they're willing to suffer just about anything (everything that's "wrong" with flying for a regional) to make that happen.
 
WAFlyBoy said:
I will take a paycut if I leave my CFI job for a regional. (As will most, if not all, of my co-workers.) It's hard to believe that any 1st year FO will make more than his/her previous job. QOL is in the eye of the beholder. Your third point hits home for me.
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Look past first year pay. Look at the QOL improvements that come with working an airline schedule vs. instructing. I worked 5 days a week, every week as a CFI. There are people junior in base getting lines with 9 days off in a row, with 15 days off in the month. That's a mini-vacation every month. For the month of October I will end up with 4 weeks - 28 days - without once going to work. The time off is due to me not being used on a Long Call line, (2 day callout) while still earning my base salary of $32k/yr. Can you do that while instructing?

One big complaint from my significant other is she works 8:30 - 5 and including getting up in the morning, traffic, etc. she really only gets 4 hours or so a day to herself vs. me who gets 4 days a week next month to myself, working 3. I'm happy - not as happy as I would be making better $$ BUT life could be worse :).

The only down side is the lack of quick TPIC. I personally think if you are single and can move on a whim with everything you own fitting into your car, that's a quicker career progression. I prefer coming "home" to real furniture vs. patio furnishings and an air mattress. Some people don't mind.
 
Hacker15e said:
Or it's a way to get jet PIC quickly
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This line of thought seems to permeate the industry these days. I don't get it.

1) Why is it so important to "get it quickly?"

2) Who is telling them that they must "get jet PIC quickly?"

Hopefully you are going to have a 20-30 year career. Why the hurry?


(Other than the schools that want their money...)
 
OldTownPilot said:
I used the word kid, because at 18 and fresh out of High school nobody is mature enough to fly a jet around. Heck my brother just turned 18 and he is barely mature enough to handle a 172.
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Be careful making statements like that. As you know from any type of true/false test, statements that use words like "nobody, never, always, everyone" tend to be false.

I know a guy that got hired at Expressjet who was 18, straight out of highschool, had 550 hrs total time and did great in training and is making due just fine over the past few years there. I don't know how he handled the 172 but he flew a seminole just fine from what I saw.

People are individuals and they can't be lumped into one category.

Gotta be careful with that.
 
Timbuff10 said:
Be careful making statements like that. As you know from any type of true/false test, statements that use words like "nobody, never, always, everyone" tend to be false.

I know a guy that got hired at Expressjet who was 18, straight out of highschool, had 550 hrs total time and did great in training and is making due just fine over the past few years there. I don't know how he handled the 172 but he flew a seminole just fine from what I saw.

People are individuals and they can't be lumped into one category.

Gotta be careful with that.
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Interesting, I curious to know about a college degree. Do you know if he is pursuing one now? I know I've seen job postings of reginols for an FO that only require a high school diploma, but I would imagine you need a degree to become a captain.
 
NJA_Capt said:
This line of thought seems to permeate the industry these days. I don't get it.

1) Why is it so important to "get it quickly?"

2) Who is telling them that they must "get jet PIC quickly?"

Hopefully you are going to have a 20-30 year career. Why the hurry?


(Other than the schools that want their money...)
Click to expand...

I think you may have answered your own question. I see adds that say "senority is everything, get there quicker with XXXXXX"
 
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