What one year at a regional will get you

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Alchemy said:
Sadly, that is actually a bit above average 1st year regoinal pay I'd guess. I'm suprised at how little you flew; that trip productivity is not so hot. Were you on reserve most of that time?
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I was on reserve Dec, Jan, & Feb. I FAR blocked 66:30 hrs, 39:45 hrs, and 54:15 hrs respectively. Credit was 81:42 hrs, 75:00 (guarantee) hrs, and 79:44 hrs respectively.

An average 4-day trip here is only 21 hours or so of pay, vs. the 24.5 they had on the united side. It's got much more to do with US Air schedules and how they schedule their a/c use rather than the scheduling done here. Or so we're told.
 
Doug Taylor said:
If you don't like it, fight the system. But if Wheelsup is upset enough, he needs to fight for that in his next contract and assist others trying to rectify that in theirs, not just take his ball and go home.
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The only time I said I would just outright quit was if I was in mesaba pilots' shoes and my pay stub was showing $<12k after tax after I had been working there a few years.

There's a difference in standing up for something you believe in and being a martyr. Sadly, I can't afford to be a martyr at this point. Sorry if that offends anyone.

I personally find the fact that delta added, what, $500 million to their coffers over the last quarter quite entertaining. Bankruptcy? Riiiight. Hopefully you (doug) and others can continue to fight the good fight to make it worth going thru being an RJ (or whatever plane) pilot. I'll keep standing by MY MEC as long as they continue to turn down reduced wages/QOL proposals from the company. I will also continue serving in the union, even after probation is over...(2 more days!).
 
surreal1221 said:
Wow. . . got a real • right here.

Where in the initial post does it even LOOK like he is pissed or frustrated that he is making that kind of cash? Maybe depressed, but it also appears he understands the system very well.

I never got that impression.

wheelsup, good write up.
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Because he was talking about how his other job payed better...Thats how I took it. People on this site usually bitch and moan about their job/pay, so why not assume he was doing the same. He wasn't, and he stated that after the fact so I didnt take issue with it. How does me telling someone that they should look for another job if they arent happy make me an •? I never berrated him, like you clearly like to do, I was just curious as to why he'd stick around if he doesnt like his job/QOL.
 
Perhaps • was a little harsh. I just don't understand why/how someone can assume that he is unhappy. Sure it could be depressing. 1st year pay is not glamorous. . . but you know what you are getting into.

In all of wheelsup's post I have read, he has never portrayed a hateful feeling towards his profession. He has, in my opinion, provided information for the training public to use to base their decisions on, at least with a little bit more realistic information.

Bottom line is, 1st year pay sucks everywhere. It's part of the industry. I'm sure he knew about it before he walked through the door. But a 16k jump after one year is not bad, not bad at all.

I just wouldn't jump to conclusions so quickly. All I'm saying. I appologize for the • bit.
 
Wheels.....good post! A nice breakdown of what it was like.....great information for those just beginning or considering the career. I never got the impression that you were disgruntled or miserable....just stating the facts.

Bottom line: 1st year isn't fun anywhere....think that was stated above. But it gets better. Like Dough said, "we" are responsible for our own bed......make it nice or sleep on the wrinkles....well, he didn't say exactly that.....but you should all get the point. :)
 
"After being a visitor to this site for quite a long time, I've observed that a small percentage of the members, most often those now firmly established in the aviation industry, are so sick of the method in which today's aspiring pilots obtain their training, the locations where they receive it, the uniforms they wear while conducting it, the expectations they have upon completing it, and the experiences they have upon reaching their first professional job, that they need to just move on. They have outgrown this site. I am sure that there is someplace where they can go to b$tch about how the young bucks are doing everything so wrong without being considered so arrogant or, sometimes, just plain mean."

I can't help but think you are refering to, me, personally. Like you think I should move on rather than express my views.

Okay...

I was released to the line as a Capt about June 1st. I'm away from home 12 days out of 28 which includes my commute for which I get airline tickets rather than jumpseating. Sometimes getting the tickets costs money out of my pocket, sometimes it doesn't, but I don't think someone at my income level should be doing a lot of offline jumpseating as opposed to supporting your favorite airline (Alaska). I purposely don't fly on Freedom/Mesa though it would save me about one day at home out of 28.

My last two paychecks netted 10.8K and grossed 15.8K for the 28 day period during which I was away from home 12 days and flew 19.5 hours block. I did PHX-MHR-ONT-DEN/DEN-ONT-SLC-PAE/PAE-PHX in a 48 hour period, also had two hung starts cause of a bad air cart, that was about the hardest 48hours of work I've done since I've been at UPS.

My duty periods are MO-FR, in PHX, every other week, from 3pm to 11pm. I'm on a 30 minute call out after preflighting the airplane each day. Stay in a nice hotel in Scottsdale if we don't fly that night. I joke around that I'm a professional TV watcher since that's mostly what I do. At least we have 300 channels to choose from.

Anyhow, this post was meant to mirror Wheelsup's post at the other extreme.

I've been around this site a long time and call things like I see them. While they may seem extreme to some of the lower time folks, I think I'm pretty main stream with my peers. I'm always amazed at the difference in views of those on the outside looking in and those on the inside looking out. Anyhow, I've been around here a long time and don't plan on going anywhere. If there was a forum for old guys to just complain about PFJ and the younger generation, I'd be there, but I'd still be here, too.
 
I was released to the line as a Capt about June 1st. I'm away from home 12 days out of 28 which includes my commute for which I get airline tickets rather than jumpseating. Sometimes getting the tickets costs money out of my pocket, sometimes it doesn't, but I don't think someone at my income level should be doing a lot of offline jumpseating as opposed to supporting your favorite airline (Alaska). I purposely don't fly on Freedom/Mesa though it would save me about one day at home out of 28.

My last two paychecks netted 10.8K and grossed 15.8K for the 28 day period during which I was away from home 12 days and flew 19.5 hours block. I did PHX-MHR-ONT-DEN/DEN-ONT-SLC-PAE/PAE-PHX in a 48 hour period, also had two hung starts cause of a bad air cart, that was about the hardest 48hours of work I've done since I've been at UPS.

My duty periods are MO-FR, in PHX, every other week, from 3pm to 11pm. I'm on a 30 minute call out after preflighting the airplane each day. Stay in a nice hotel in Scottsdale if we don't fly that night. I joke around that I'm a professional TV watcher since that's mostly what I do. At least we have 300 channels to choose from.

Anyhow, this post was meant to mirror Wheelsup's post at the other extreme.

I've been around this site a long time and call things like I see them. While they may seem extreme to some of the lower time folks, I think I'm pretty main stream with my peers. I'm always amazed at the difference in views of those on the outside looking in and those on the inside looking out. Anyhow, I've been around here a long time and don't plan on going anywhere. If there was a forum for old guys to just complain about PFJ and the younger generation, I'd be there, but I'd still be here, too.


Wow. Very impressive. I'm serious, I can't wait to get near that level. It's too bad, though, because, rather than learn from what you might have to offer, I instead rarely read what you have to say because every time I do it is something sarcastic, bitter, or gloating. But, then again, you already know that you come off as extreme to some of the lower time folks.

How many posts are they that state, "Countdown 3-2-1 to what DE727UPS has to spout on this one." Hint...that's not a good sign.

I've been observing this site a long time and I call things like I see them too.

And do I even want to know what a "PFJ" is or why you think "Alaska" is my favorite airline?
user_online.gif
 
Fandango Flyer said:
I've been observing this site a long time and I call things like I see them too.

And do I even want to know what a "PFJ" is or why you think "Alaska" is my favorite airline?
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I can't help but think that if you have been "observing" for a long time, that you would KNOW what PFJ is. :)
 
I can't help but think that if you have been "observing" for a long time, that you would KNOW what PFJ is.

No, sorry that I didn't pick up on that one. Thanks for telling me, though!
 
I'd just like to point out that, save Horizon Air, Air Wisconsin has the highest 50 seat FO pay in the industry. A more realistic income range for a 1st year regional FO, per diem included, is around $22,000 and 2nd year is $35,000.
 
Fandango Flyer said:
I was released to the line as a Capt about June 1st. I'm away from home 12 days out of 28 which includes my commute for which I get airline tickets rather than jumpseating. Sometimes getting the tickets costs money out of my pocket, sometimes it doesn't, but I don't think someone at my income level should be doing a lot of offline jumpseating as opposed to supporting your favorite airline (Alaska). I purposely don't fly on Freedom/Mesa though it would save me about one day at home out of 28.

My last two paychecks netted 10.8K and grossed 15.8K for the 28 day period during which I was away from home 12 days and flew 19.5 hours block. I did PHX-MHR-ONT-DEN/DEN-ONT-SLC-PAE/PAE-PHX in a 48 hour period, also had two hung starts cause of a bad air cart, that was about the hardest 48hours of work I've done since I've been at UPS.

My duty periods are MO-FR, in PHX, every other week, from 3pm to 11pm. I'm on a 30 minute call out after preflighting the airplane each day. Stay in a nice hotel in Scottsdale if we don't fly that night. I joke around that I'm a professional TV watcher since that's mostly what I do. At least we have 300 channels to choose from.

Anyhow, this post was meant to mirror Wheelsup's post at the other extreme.

I've been around this site a long time and call things like I see them. While they may seem extreme to some of the lower time folks, I think I'm pretty main stream with my peers. I'm always amazed at the difference in views of those on the outside looking in and those on the inside looking out. Anyhow, I've been around here a long time and don't plan on going anywhere. If there was a forum for old guys to just complain about PFJ and the younger generation, I'd be there, but I'd still be here, too.


Wow. Very impressive. I'm serious, I can't wait to get near that level. It's too bad, though, because, rather than learn from what you might have to offer, I instead rarely read what you have to say because every time I do it is something sarcastic, bitter, or gloating. But, then again, you already know that you come off as extreme to some of the lower time folks.

How many posts are they that state, "Countdown 3-2-1 to what DE727UPS has to spout on this one." Hint...that's not a good sign.

I've been observing this site a long time and I call things like I see them too.

And do I even want to know what a "PFJ" is or why you think "Alaska" is my favorite airline?
user_online.gif
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Eh...you shouldn't really judge someone by what you see posted on this site. Dons a really cool humble,quiet guy in real life. He just has a passion for aviation and giving back to the up and comers in the industry. Which is prolly why Doug asked him to become a moderator on the site. He is also very passionate about training and PFJ/PFT programs.

Getting to know Don well enough you immediately are able to know that he never has a case of braggadocio not really in his persona. He just kinda puts it out with no B.S.

As much as Don enjoys aviation I think his real passion in life is volunteering at his church and helping out the youth.

So take the time to not just observe the site but take part and get to know the members here in a far better light. The outside looking isn't always going to give you a real perspective on life or this website. Just some stuff to consider.
 
GaTechKid said:
I'd just like to point out that, save Horizon Air, Air Wisconsin has the highest 50 seat FO pay in the industry. A more realistic income range for a 1st year regional FO, per diem included, is around $22,000 and 2nd year is $35,000.
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From previous posts, I'm thinking this is also pretty typical for expressjet and skywest (CRJ) guys. One fellow on here reported making $3300 take home per month at expressjet as a second year FO.
 
"rather than learn from what you might have to offer, I instead rarely read what you have to say because every time I do it is something sarcastic, bitter, or gloating"

Suit yourself....

"Eh...you shouldn't really judge someone by what you see posted on this site"

Actually, made he should. There's nothing I say here I wouldn't say straight to someones face if they asked. I don't see any reason to apologise or hold back about anything I've said here. Yeah, I'm a nice guy in real life. I think I'm a nice guy at JC as well. The only people that think I'm NOT a nice guy are those who's feathers I ruffle for one reason or another. That kinda cracks me up but it's certainly human nature. It doesn't bother me.
 
FlyingNole said:
Because he was talking about how his other job payed better...Thats how I took it. People on this site usually bitch and moan about their job/pay, so why not assume he was doing the same. He wasn't, and he stated that after the fact so I didnt take issue with it. How does me telling someone that they should look for another job if they arent happy make me an •? I never berrated him, like you clearly like to do, I was just curious as to why he'd stick around if he doesnt like his job/QOL.
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Dude, completely out of context. This shouldnt be a profession that sucks people in with cool uniforms, nice glass cockpits, and hot flight attendants. Wheelsup gave a great informational insight to how the profession is and unfortunately there isnt a ton of this kind of info readily available for anyone considering a pro pilot career.

Aviation shouldnt mislead people. Its to damn bad that it takes some folks 10s of thousands in training, CFIing, and being a new FO to learn they cant support their family on the dirt wages. I think WU gave a great, REALISTIC view of what to expect and got ripped for it. Total BS.

Great write up wheels. Sorry you got slammed by "some people" that have the sheets over their head.
 
Don- pretty fun what you said about how the people on the outside looking in always seem to know "more" or "better" than the ones on the inside looking out. If there was ever a truer fact.


My last local trip I flew with this guy who has been online for less than a month. He asked me a couple of questions in general. He was an older gentlemen, in his mid to late 40's, a career changer, and he told me he still lives at home. Whats wrong with this picture? Besides the fact that he didn't like someone half his age telling him not to call an airport in sight until both crewmembers agree upon it, among many other things. (sorry, had to rant).

(P.S. according to him, I have a bad attitude) So I guess I fall in the range of guys who just bitch and complain now. Some of the new members should go read my posts from circa 2001-2003 and see the kool-aid in my words. And now come read my posts 2004-present. Notice a difference? If you think you'll be exempt from this, or that it won't happen to you, you've got another thing coming.
 
GaTechKid said:
I'd just like to point out that, save Horizon Air, Air Wisconsin has the highest 50 seat FO pay in the industry. A more realistic income range for a 1st year regional FO, per diem included, is around $22,000 and 2nd year is $35,000.
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No offense y'all but I dont know how anyone lives on that pay.

PEACE!
 
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