Learjet 60 crash in West Palm Beach

Someone still fly’s a saberliner?

NFO's during my era of flight school still flew in the T-39N. At some point around that time, there was a mishap where IIRC a battery or something in the tail overheated, caused fire, which resulted in the failure of the stabs/tail empennage and it nosed over and they all rode it in. I believe it was during a low level, so I guess at least it happened quickly. That mishap brought about the retirement of that jet pretty shortly thereafter.
 
One more thing from lining up the radio calls with the ADS-B. To my ear, her voice changes significantly between the 10,000 fpm call and the 20,000 fpm call. On the first she's energetic and alert but composed. On the second she sounds much more alarmed, while still having the presence of mind to keep working the radio (using the call sign, for instance). The ADS-B data changes in those same seconds. Times are UTC and assume the LiveATC archive starts at exactly 17:30:00. Path angle uses ground speed and Mach is rough, with wind unknown and temperature taken from the crew's −47°C report:

- 17:48:30, "Mayday", 10,000 fpm call: −14,016 fpm, path 16° down, no turn (track 099°), about 0.84 Mach.

- 17:48:36, "[Declaring] emergency": −19,904 fpm, path 22° down, first movement in the track, about 0.88 Mach.

- 17:48:41, 20,000 fpm call: about −20,700 fpm, path 22–23° down, turning right at 1.2°/s, about 0.90 Mach.

- 17:48:50: −20,864 fpm, path 22° down, turning right at 2.5°/s, about 0.90 Mach.

- 17:49:03, "twenty two thousand feet ... banking sixty": over −31,000 fpm, path about 35–40° down, turning right at 2–4°/s, about 0.91 Mach.

The jet appears to go over its Mach limit at about the time of the first descent and Mayday calls. Mmo is 0.81 Mach from 26,750 to 37,000 ft (Learjet 60 AFM FM-123, Change 37, page 1-9, a 2009 revision; the FAA data sheet charts the same limit, TCDS A10CE, Rev. 67, page 23: Dynamic Regulatory System ). Assuming no wind, it passes 0.81 at about 17:48:27, about when she first calls the descent. Assuming 20 kt of headwind or tailwind moves that to about 17:48:21 or 17:48:32, still after the descent began at about 17:48:16.

The right turn first shows at about 17:48:36, about when she starts to sound more alarmed, within about a second of alignment. Before that the jet is presumably in a wings-level nose-over, with load well under 1 g (our rough estimates run about 0.1–0.4 g). After it, the bank is building at about 1.1–1.4 g, and the speed is near 0.90 Mach. Those load figures are estimates from fitted ADS-B, not measurements.

The descent rate climbs fast until about 17:48:36, then holds near 20,000 fpm until about 17:48:50 before steepening again. Her 20,000 call falls on that plateau and that number matches the ADS-B data.

What this doesn't show is what caused the change in her voice from call to call. She could be reacting to the overspeed, the rate, the roll, or recovery inputs that weren't working. It's tempting, but obviously still premature, to tie the start of the bank to the left elevator coming off, since the NTSB says most of it was found 1.3 to 3.8 miles from the site. A separation at that moment would need about 2 miles of drift or carry, which is possible, but nothing shows it. Also, of course, a right spiral isn't necessarily due to a left elevator separation. High-Mach wing drop, uneven ice or damage, or a small roll that a pull then tightens could all do it.

Same caveats as before: a rough outline, not a forensic analysis. Still using well-managed AI assistance; numbers and calculations are checkable against public data.

Pete
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Ok AI bot
 
I keep seeing coffin corner plausible cause pilots online, but I doubt it. If they were doing FL410 just before the FL panhandle just fine, with enough margin that allowed them to be there, 350 would definitely be fine, and a climb to 370 should be fine.

Probably much more to do with icing, and LOC-I with an improper recovery that leads to inflight breakup.

They were fine in smooth air at fl410.

They were climbing out of 350 in turbulence that was displacing them 700ft from assigned altitude, in ISA+ conditions.

A 700 foot displacement (by ATC recordings) will come with a pretty significant AOA change and probably IAS change.


I’d not rule anything out yet.
 
They were fine in smooth air at fl410.

They were climbing out of 350 in turbulence that was displacing them 700ft from assigned altitude, in ISA+ conditions.

A 700 foot displacement (by ATC recordings) will come with a pretty significant AOA change and probably IAS change.


I’d not rule anything out yet.

We have to see. Someone else above in the thread wrote with how calmly she was talking about doing 600, no 700, ft it sounded like she was looking at the VSI rate they were climbing, versus an uncontrollable 600-700 ft displacement.

Time will tell, and agreed can’t rule anything out. Such a tragedy :(
 
I am obviously not keeping up.

Are y'all saying this guy is a Cylon?
Peter himself said he was a colon. *Cylon(autocorrect doesn’t like that)

They’re just asking it to leave now- but it won’t.

Maybe it’s not a Cylon. Maybe it’s Farva - I would like a liter of cola though.
 
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