Learjet 60 crash in West Palm Beach

HeyEng said:
I hate saying this, but TMZ is reporting the name of the PIC. I have to give TMZ credit, they aren't wrong very often. 55 year old Jeff Gregory. Looks like he *may* have worked for East Coast Jets.

www.tmz.com

Palm Beach Plane Crash: Captain's Identity Revealed

11:42 AM PT -- The passengers on the private jet have been identified.
www.tmz.com www.tmz.com

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TMZ is usually pretty good about getting accurate names out. IIRC (and I could be wrong), but they were the first to name Kobe in the helicopter crash Jan 2020.
 
again, not a corporate guy, so just wondering here. Pardon if it’s a dumb question.

Would this be an airplane owned by the passenger and with dedicated pilots? Would this be same but with an operating or
management company providing assigned or random contract pilots? Or would this be some company that owns the plane, provides the pilots, and carries paying pax who charter the plane?
 
NovemberEcho said:
Omg that was her?! That was in my airspace. The controller working her then is and was a total dick. Someone telling you they can’t maintain altitude is not the time to be pedantic about what kind of turbulence they’re reporting. He is an embarrassment to the profession and is always snapping at pilots over the smallest things and doesn’t let things go. I fully expect a crash one day where the last thing the pilot hears is him yelling at them. Unfortunately we have a few like that now and it’s horrible working with them.
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I know who you are talking about. He is like that with us too.
 
MikeD said:
again, not a corporate guy, so just wondering here. Pardon if it’s a dumb question.

Would this be an airplane owned by the passenger and with dedicated pilots? Would this be same but with an operating or
management company providing assigned or random contract pilots? Or would this be some company that owns the plane, provides the pilots, and carries paying pax who charter the plane?
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It can actually be all three on the same trip. Did that regularly.

Day one is A, day two could be B, day 3 could be C,

You asked about insurance, 99% of the time it’s pencil whipped and or you just pay a little extra toward your premiums and take it out of the crews pay, usually by under paying the FO. Not a joke.

I wouldn’t read too much into the FO sending a text about her day. Could just as easily been bragging (seriously) or responding to a “how’s your flight” question by her significant other.
 
bLizZuE said:
NTSB briefing said something along the lines of “some evidence of the aircraft breaking up” prior to impact.
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There was a sluth on social media who posted a video of some type of debris that looked like it could have been part of a horizontal stabilizer about 5 miles away from the crash.
 
MikeD said:
As of now, nothing i’ve seen has been released about the PIC or experience/quals. Will be interesting to see how the SIC ended up in the job, and whether or not the PIC was or wasn’t part of that.
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You guys really aren’t going to like this, but I did 15 years on this side of the industry.

90% of the time, if the older male captain gets to pick between two equally qualified yet inexperienced FO’s, it’s going to the attractive female. This is the reality and the biggest open secret in the industry.
 
T/O w/FSII said:
You guys really aren’t going to like this, but I did 15 years on this side of the industry.

90% of the time, if the older male captain gets to pick between two equally qualified yet inexperienced FO’s, it’s going to the attractive female. This is the reality and the biggest open secret in the industry.
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I feel like this is every industry.

Interestingly, the audio seems to suggest he froze up and she was doing everything she could to get him to snap out of it. Runs sort of counter to the inevitable misogyny that will blame her for this.
 
FlyingAccountant said:
I feel like this is every industry.

Interestingly, the audio seems to suggest he froze up and she was doing everything she could to get him to snap out of it. Runs sort of counter to the inevitable misogyny that will blame her for this.
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Same happened on the ExcelAire legacy jet. Capt froze up, FO was active and verbal after the collision. He basically took over as PF and as PIC and started to issue commands to the CA seat PIC, who was basically checked out mentally. He was able to follow basic orders once snapped out of it.



I still want to know why even in that news conference you have a guy saying red on NEXRAD is okay, because it wasn’t dark red or magenta. Like, how is this a thing?
 
NovemberEcho said:
He’s despised by every ATC facility that works with us. EWR tower is ready to put a hit out on him. It was a spat he got into with them that this whole radar identification on departure rule came out.
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why wouldn’t EWR tower tell him to get bent? N90 doesn’t rule over EWR tower?
 
T/O w/FSII said:
You guys really aren’t going to like this, but I did 15 years on this side of the industry.

90% of the time, if the older male captain gets to pick between two equally qualified yet inexperienced FO’s, it’s going to the attractive female. This is the reality and the biggest open secret in the industry.
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Yep.

The same demographic that calls her DEI, and says garbage like "she should have stayed in the kitchen" are the same morons who would put them in the right seat over a more qualified male FO, just so they could try and score.
 
FlyingAccountant said:
I feel like this is every industry.

Interestingly, the audio seems to suggest he froze up and she was doing everything she could to get him to snap out of it. Runs sort of counter to the inevitable misogyny that will blame her for this.
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unless somehow he had some realization that they were dead early on, with no pitch control, before she was aware? who knows.
 
MikeD said:
unless somehow he had some realization that they were dead early on, with no pitch control, before she was aware? who knows.
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We will never know, but I still don't necessarily believe they lost the tail until they oversped the aircraft. At no point did she sound like she was in any severe turbulence. You could hear them bouncing around a bit in her voice in the beginning but to have the tail separate and THEN get into the dive, I would have to assume they would have said something to that effect. The wings looked intact until impact, but I could absolutely believe they overstressed the aircraft trying to pitch out of an upset and ripped the horizontal stab off.
 
Inverted said:
We will never know, but I still don't necessarily believe they lost the tail until they oversped the aircraft. At no point did she sound like she was in any severe turbulence. You could hear them bouncing around a bit in her voice in the beginning but to have the tail separate and THEN get into the dive, I would have to assume they would have said something to that effect. The wings looked intact until impact, but I could absolutely believe they overstressed the aircraft trying to pitch out of an upset and ripped the horizontal stab off.
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A full stall followed by an aggressive dive and subsequent hard pull on an ice laden tail could certainly snap the horizontal stab off. Something the PF would've certainly felt. I see no evidence that the guy fell apart.
 
FlyingAccountant said:
I feel like this is every industry.

Interestingly, the audio seems to suggest he froze up and she was doing everything she could to get him to snap out of it. Runs sort of counter to the inevitable misogyny that will blame her for this.
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That’s as unfair as saying “well it’s a female”, it wasn’t a CVR recording.
 
rjmore said:
A full stall followed by an aggressive dive and subsequent hard pull on an ice laden tail could certainly snap the horizontal stab off. Something the PF would've certainly felt. I see no evidence that the guy fell apart.
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We may never know. I would think they would feel the tail departing in any scenario and hear it, for that matter. Either way, they departed controlled flight very quickly.

The video on VASAviation of them reporting severe turbulence going into TEB is going to play a role in this somehow as well...
 
Inverted said:
We will never know, but I still don't necessarily believe they lost the tail until they oversped the aircraft. At no point did she sound like she was in any severe turbulence. You could hear them bouncing around a bit in her voice in the beginning but to have the tail separate and THEN get into the dive, I would have to assume they would have said something to that effect. The wings looked intact until impact, but I could absolutely believe they overstressed the aircraft trying to pitch out of an upset and ripped the horizontal stab off.
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i don’t believe it necessarily happened prior to the dive either. I think any control surface separation was more a resultant factor rather than a causal factor. The latter makes little sense….control surfaces separating for no thing more than turbulence. Is it possible? Well, anything is possible. Preexisting structural fatigue exacerbated by the turbulence? Pretty far out there of a scenario, but i still don’t think enough wreckage exists thus far, to go one way or another…..although post-dive and past VNE is most likely. Another one we may never know, unless a horizontal stab is found somewhere back along its flightpath.
 
I’m assuming they were at climb power when this went down, would pulling the throttles to idle have had any benefit or does that not really matter at that point?
 
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