Vietnam B789 at Munich on Aug 15th 2026, late rotation, tailstrike, runway overrun, tyre damage

But you’re still livin’ large for a guppy! :)

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Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Your ballpark is correct. But it’s also mostly common sense. SEA to Hawaii on a normal, pax flight with the typical load factor? You should not be seeing any VR speeds in the 120-130kt range. I still can’t believe that error wasn’t trapped and it happened to multiple crews.
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Yeah this is true. At least if you have flown the thing more than a couple times.
 
Roger Roger said:
Yeah, anything past the 80 knots/1000 footers would be kinda difficult to develop an ROT, certainly with enough accuracy to be confident telling the CA that some is wrong at V1-10.

More better anyway to have a good reasonable-ness check beforehand during your setup, and I bet most of us have a better sense for that than we think, especially with airports we go to all the time. Like, if the 1s are open in SFO, and I was loaded up with full seats and gas for a transcon, and somehow I got numbers for a flaps 5 takeoff, I’d be taking another look. On the Vr thing, I hadn’t noticed that, but generally it seems like usually flaps 5 your V2 is in the vicinity of GW/1000.

I think most of us actually have a pretty good spidey sense for these things, but can get better with a little practice and help trap these errors.
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Great point, I am sure that ROT falls apart pretty quickly when you are doing something other than a F5 bleeds on takeoff.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
People need to learn what kinetic energy is and the fact it’s based on the square of velocity. And stop getting on the brakes right after touchdown.
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Yeah 100%. It probably is more habit pattern than anything, since i come from a plane that has pretty weak brakes and has a history of brake fires/flat tires after heavy GW landings. But I tend to not even touch them until below 100 knots, unless runway length/conditions/performance dictates a different strategy. Not ashamed at all to roll off 16R at P or Q. Gate probably wasnt open anyways. Or PHX or DEN. It is funny how many times people will brief that they’re gonna go easy on the brakes at TOD, and then absolutely do nothing of the sort on the runway haha.
 
///AMG said:
Yeah 100%. It probably is more habit pattern than anything, since i come from a plane that has pretty weak brakes and has a history of brake fires/flat tires after heavy GW landings. But I tend to not even touch them until below 100 knots, unless runway length/conditions/performance dictates a different strategy. Not ashamed at all to roll off 16R at P or Q. Gate probably wasnt open anyways. Or PHX or DEN. It is funny how many times people will brief that they’re gonna go easy on the brakes at TOD, and then absolutely do nothing of the sort on the runway haha.
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Wait... you guys don't have autobrakes on your guppies?
 
///AMG said:
Yeah 100%. It probably is more habit pattern than anything, since i come from a plane that has pretty weak brakes and has a history of brake fires/flat tires after heavy GW landings. But I tend to not even touch them until below 100 knots, unless runway length/conditions/performance dictates a different strategy. Not ashamed at all to roll off 16R at P or Q. Gate probably wasnt open anyways. Or PHX or DEN. It is funny how many times people will brief that they’re gonna go easy on the brakes at TOD, and then absolutely do nothing of the sort on the runway haha.
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I am team Q.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
We do. Some pilots just don’t understand how they work, decel rates, and kinetic energy at higher speeds.
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Yeah typical usage seems to be along the lines of “I’m gonna use AB2 for XYZ reason” (which for the record, I have no issue with), and then as soon as the buckets come out, they rage stomp the brakes and override at like 130 knots. Which to your point, is poor mechanics.

On the occasions when AB is warranted, I generally just let them do their thing until the same place I normally use manual brakes, somewhere around the time I’m starting to stow the reversers. Obviously not always possible for runway distance limited situations, but even on shorter runways, I’ve almost never needed to really get on the manual brakes with full buckets and ABs working.
 
///AMG said:
Yeah typical usage seems to be along the lines of “I’m gonna use AB2 for XYZ reason” (which for the record, I have no issue with), and then as soon as the buckets come out, they rage stomp the brakes and override at like 130 knots. Which to your point, is poor mechanics.
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My hot take is if you’re gonna use AB use at least 3. That’s what it takes to make the normal exits (E in SFO, B8 in SAN, etc) so it’s not some crazy deceleration rate and it does it way smoother than, as you say, starting at AB2 and then overriding them as soon as the buckets come out.
 
///AMG said:
Yeah typical usage seems to be along the lines of “I’m gonna use AB2 for XYZ reason” (which for the record, I have no issue with), and then as soon as the buckets come out, they rage stomp the brakes and override at like 130 knots. Which to your point, is poor mechanics.

On the occasions when AB is warranted, I generally just let them do their thing until the same place I normally use manual brakes, somewhere around the time I’m starting to stow the reversers. Obviously not always possible for runway distance limited situations, but even on shorter runways, I’ve almost never needed to really get on the manual brakes with full buckets and ABs working.
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Our FH allows disengaging autobrakes with the speed brake lever or by simply reaching up and selecting a lower deceleration rate including OFF.

Good luck with that on the line as an FO, but it’s OK per the FH.

Really it’s a shame you guys can’t see the deceleration rate in the HGS. Foot stomping the brakes while yoinking the TRs out is greater than MAX auto brakes. So is foot stomping autobrakes to OFF.
 
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