Vietnam B789 at Munich on Aug 15th 2026, late rotation, tailstrike, runway overrun, tyre damage

Inadvertent application of brakes by crewmember?
Possibly and more likely…causing enough heat to blow a fuse plug followed by the low pressure light they received after becoming airborne especially since they retracted the gear normally.

I would think they’d also get a brake overheat message and/or see it on the tire pressure/brake temp system schematic page if that were the case.
 
Parking brake set is an automatic takeoff config warning once power is advanced to the takeoff setting so that would be unlikely…assuming system worked as designed.


I mean… LAPA B737 had no flaps set for takeoff, the TO config going off the entire takeoff roll and the pilots still sent it…







Not saying that’s what happened (flaps seem set correctly). Just that an alarm going off is no guarantee that all crews will hear it and/or abide.
 
Hey what’s that noise? It’s really annoying!!
Funny you mention that. I remember getting slam dunked into ONT from the north with an F/O that was new to the 76. He was behind the jet all the way down in VMC. We forgot the speedbrakes being out at flaps 25. I was so concentrating on the approach I never heard the beep, beep, beep or noticed the EICAS message. Nor did he. I caught the speedbrakes out on the landing checklist and that made the EICAS message go away. I couldn't believe it happened but under stress my brain narrowed focus and didn't care about that beeping noise.
 
Inadvertent application of brakes by crewmember?

I’ve actaully had that in a 319.

We had some completely ridiculous debate about foot position during takeoff and I had a OE pilot that had a number of things going on and it was basically the last chance before going to “the board”. Weird acceleration, but enough, V1, rotate, the plane sprung off the ground, making the big turn northbound and *BING* “HOT BRAKES”.

Way WAY WAY worst things about that leg, not saying this is what happened in the case of the 787 at all, but it’s certainly plausible.
 
Takeoff abort gone wrong/decision reversed? Obviously not a notable deceleration at any point, but like a half hearted start to one, and then they changed their mind type of scenario? I’ve seen this happen in much more manual jets before, and the outcome is normally destruction of the airplane. That plane load of people should go buy lottery tickets because regardless of cause, they are some of the luckiest people on earth right now. Scary
 
Inadvertent application of brakes by crewmember?
Wouldn’t be the first time. Reminds me of the accident in Russia that killed the lokomotiv hockey team. Even then 13K of runway is a long time to cruise along without stopping or going full power.
Either way no judgment from me because life comes at you fast especially in this industry. We’ll find out what happened eventually.
 
I’ve actaully had that in a 319.

We had some completely ridiculous debate about foot position during takeoff and I had a OE pilot that had a number of things going on and it was basically the last chance before going to “the board”. Weird acceleration, but enough, V1, rotate, the plane sprung off the ground, making the big turn northbound and *BING* “HOT BRAKES”.

Way WAY WAY worst things about that leg, not saying this is what happened in the case of the 787 at all, but it’s certainly plausible.

I think we had the same student!🫩

As a previous OE instructor on two different fleet types during my career I feel like I saw everything from potential astronaut candidates to those that you wondered how they drove their car to work by themselves unsupervised. Some comical mistakes and some that probably took 10 years off my life.🤣
 
I’ve been reading that the brakes hit the max temperature of 9.9 after becoming airborne.

Must be nice having all that near technology. I just get to feel brake chatter every time the aircraft comes to a stop when I’m DH to my next reserve assignment.
 
Flaps, Spoilers, Trim, and Parking Brake.

If it is indeed incorrect V speeds loaded, I'm really starting to like the way we do it in the US where performance numbers are auto-uplinked to the FMS via ACARS once the load closeout is received. You check for reasonableness and accept them. Sure everything is susceptible to glitches, like what happened a couple of years ago to that Alaska 737, but it's much more rare than manual data input errors. In almost 5 years at my air line I only had one strange uplink come back that I couldn't immediately reconcile and required a phone call to load control. They were able to figure out the discrepancy and we went our merry way. In the rest of the world, each pilot does their performance calculations independently on a dedicated EFB app (or if they still use the onboard OPT), then cross-check it with each other making sure they came up with the same thing, and type it in. I think the potential for errors is much higher that way, between transcription errors, distractions, and data entry errors. Just look at the LATAM 777 in MXP to see how quickly it can go wrong.

On Le Canabus, the numbers come back from Aerodata but we have to punch them in manually. There's an ECL we run that verifies the correct data, and the airplane itself will complain if the bleed, flaps or trim aren't set correctly, but the speeds are a manual thing. The cross-check we do has the CA read off what's loaded and the FO verify it against the printed Aerodata rather than the FMS - since, theoretically, that's the source that the FO used to punch in the numbers to the FMS. If there's a mismatch, this traps it.
 
On Le Canabus, the numbers come back from Aerodata but we have to punch them in manually. There's an ECL we run that verifies the correct data, and the airplane itself will complain if the bleed, flaps or trim aren't set correctly, but the speeds are a manual thing. The cross-check we do has the CA read off what's loaded and the FO verify it against the printed Aerodata rather than the FMS - since, theoretically, that's the source that the FO used to punch in the numbers to the FMS. If there's a mismatch, this traps it.
Wow, lots of variety out there in how different airlines/airframes handle this.

My takeaway from all of these various incidents is that a professional should have a really good awareness of what is normal on their aircraft, whether that’s VSpeeds, acceleration, flap setting, pitch attitudes. I like to think that if we somehow got numbers for a 33% error in weight, it would make my spidey sense tingle, but I think I need to develop a TLAR technique or similar when I’m looking at numbers.

One thing I’ve picked up from (i forget who) on here, in lieu of any actually acceleration indication in the cockpit, is 80 knots by the 1000’ markers. Not that that would have helped here as the stagnation appears to have hit about 130 knots, but if we’re doing a full length takeoff it’s always something I mentally cross check on the roll.
 
Wow, lots of variety out there in how different airlines/airframes handle this.

My takeaway from all of these various incidents is that a professional should have a really good awareness of what is normal on their aircraft, whether that’s VSpeeds, acceleration, flap setting, pitch attitudes. I like to think that if we somehow got numbers for a 33% error in weight, it would make my spidey sense tingle, but I think I need to develop a TLAR technique or similar when I’m looking at numbers.

One thing I’ve picked up from (i forget who) on here, in lieu of any actually acceleration indication in the cockpit, is 80 knots by the 1000’ markers. Not that that would have helped here as the stagnation appears to have hit about 130 knots, but if we’re doing a full length takeoff it’s always something I mentally cross check on the roll.

The other technique i heard thrown around, in the aftermath of the tail strike day, was VR should be somewhere close to your GW in 100K lbs. Like 165k would be close to 165 KCAS VR. It’s really loose, probably +/- 20 knots from actual # in some instances. But it would theoretically trap a Vr of like 120 knots, on a 170k jet. I also have no idea where i heard that, and it isn’t something i use for any actual verification, but i have paid attention since then, and this ROT seems to be kinda ballpark most of the time. That of course doesn’t address the wrong power setting potential issue, which is more of a line speed check thing like you mention. I honestly dont think there is a really good ROT possible though, we use so many crazy derates/AT/etc, I’m not sure anything could ever be accurate enough to verify. If they actually included it in the performance pack, then that would be something potentially useful. I do know that when i look outside and note the position down the runway at V1, it almost always seems like it would be an impossibility to stop in the distance remaining (yes, i know it actually is possible up to that point). So it is damn close to using up almost all the runway on a normal takeoff with nothing going wrong, the way we derate these things. Guess that’s a long way of saying it would be hard to have a consistent sight picture for “what looks right” given that, different runway lengths, etc.
 
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The Falcon 900 had an associated acceleration rate in Gs next to the V speeds for the takeoff weight. It was a nice verification.

Nothing like that on the 737 that I am aware of and it would be really hard to catch bad data from ACARS. This happened to our shop not too long ago and resulted in multiple tail strikes. With at least one tail strike crew being an LCA conducting OE, that I’m aware of.

In short I’d still rather be lucky than good.
 
The other technique i heard thrown around, in the aftermath of the tail strike day, was VR should be somewhere close to your GW in 100K lbs. Like 165k would be close to 165 KCAS VR. It’s really loose, probably +/- 20 knots from actual # in some instances. But it would theoretically trap a Vr of like 120 knots, on a 170k jet. I also have no idea where i heard that, and it isn’t something i use for any actual verification, but i have paid attention since then, and this ROT seems to be kinda ballpark most of the time. That of course doesn’t address the wrong power setting potential issue, which is more of a line speed check thing like you mention. I honestly dont think there is a really good ROT possible though, we use so many crazy derates/AT/etc, I’m not sure anything could ever be accurate enough to verify. If they actually included it in the performance pack, then that would be something potentially useful. I do know that when i look outside and note the position down the runway at V1, it almost always seems like it would be an impossibility to stop in the distance remaining (yes, i know it actually is possible up to that point). So it is damn close to using up almost all the runway on a normal takeoff with nothing going wrong, the way we derate these things. Guess that’s a long way of saying it would be hard to have a consistent sight picture for “what looks right” given that, different runway lengths, etc.
Yeah, anything past the 80 knots/1000 footers would be kinda difficult to develop an ROT, certainly with enough accuracy to be confident telling the CA that some is wrong at V1-10.

More better anyway to have a good reasonable-ness check beforehand during your setup, and I bet most of us have a better sense for that than we think, especially with airports we go to all the time. Like, if the 1s are open in SFO, and I was loaded up with full seats and gas for a transcon, and somehow I got numbers for a flaps 5 takeoff, I’d be taking another look. On the Vr thing, I hadn’t noticed that, but generally it seems like usually flaps 5 your V2 is in the vicinity of GW/1000.

I think most of us actually have a pretty good spidey sense for these things, but can get better with a little practice and help trap these errors.
 
The other technique i heard thrown around, in the aftermath of the tail strike day, was VR should be somewhere close to your GW in 100K lbs. Like 165k would be close to 165 KCAS VR. It’s really loose, probably +/- 20 knots from actual # in some instances. But it would theoretically trap a Vr of like 120 knots, on a 170k jet. I also have no idea where i heard that, and it isn’t something i use for any actual verification, but i have paid attention since then, and this ROT seems to be kinda ballpark most of the time. That of course doesn’t address the wrong power setting potential issue, which is more of a line speed check thing like you mention. I honestly dont think there is a really good ROT possible though, we use so many crazy derates/AT/etc, I’m not sure anything could ever be accurate enough to verify. If they actually included it in the performance pack, then that would be something potentially useful. I do know that when i look outside and note the position down the runway at V1, it almost always seems like it would be an impossibility to stop in the distance remaining (yes, i know it actually is possible up to that point). So it is damn close to using up almost all the runway on a normal takeoff with nothing going wrong, the way we derate these things. Guess that’s a long way of saying it would be hard to have a consistent sight picture for “what looks right” given that, different runway lengths, etc.

Your ballpark is correct. But it’s also mostly common sense. SEA to Hawaii on a normal, pax flight with the typical load factor? You should not be seeing any VR speeds in the 120-130kt range. I still can’t believe that error wasn’t trapped and it happened to multiple crews.
 
I’ve been reading that the brakes hit the max temperature of 9.9 after becoming airborne.

Must be nice having all that near technology. I just get to feel brake chatter every time the aircraft comes to a stop when I’m DH to my next reserve assignment.


People need to learn what kinetic energy is and the fact it’s based on the square of velocity. And stop getting on the brakes right after touchdown.
 
More better anyway to have a good reasonable-ness check beforehand during your setup, and I bet most of us have a better sense for that than we think, especially with airports we go to all the time.

100%. Once anyone has enough time in seat, they should be able to use any of the five senses to recognize an incorrect power setting for each phase, especially for take off.
 
Or, go old school and have the Guppy jurassic/classic ref flip book for every 1000 lbs, like we still use to set the round dial airspeed inductor markers with
IMG_4179.jpeg
 
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