Oh Alaskan

[ppragman]

I first grew a beard when I was flying 135 in Alaska. Back when I was young enough that I needed it to make the pax stop asking me “are you old enough to fly yuk yuk yuk”.

Somehow, that’s not an issue for me anymore…

Captains have beards. This has been true for all of history. Badass captains have beards. He wasn’t “black goatee” or “black trimmed mustache” he was Black Beard.

The current trend of people to try to make everyone this perfectly trim caricature of a Juan Trippe Aviator is nonsense. If we’re going to dress like sailors it should be from the golden age of sail not a horny fever dream of Howard Hughes. If it was for any practical reason y’all would be wearing flight suits anyway… which is honestly what you should be wearing. They have good pockets.

To make it fair for the ladies I propose we bring back beards but the lady captains get a single shot pirate pistol they’re allowed to bring through security to protect themselves from • copilots and terrorists. Also a demonstrably cooler hat. That or women are allowed visible tattoos when they’re a captain. Let them decide.

Also, captains shouldn’t have to wear ties. If you’re the captain of a machine *literally flying through the air at hundreds of knots* you have little time to be bothered by tying a tie. FOs, sure. Make them wear ties, but that should be the perk of upgrade - now that you’re the captain you are in charge, and people who are in charge don’t have to wear ties if they don’t want to.

 

[BobDDuck]

Serious question (and I'm not trying to make excuses because I think it sucks): Have you ever seen a management team, aside from maybe Herb, that was honest to it's pilots?

In instances similar to this, prior HAL leadership was pretty truthful as to why they were making a decision that they were. I think that prior to that, there were some hard learned lessons about what happens when you lie to a pilot group in cases when the reality is publicly accessible to everyone.

It’s amazing that on APC, beards gets more attention than their 787 and 321 displacements.

Priorities, I guess.

I don't think anybody is surprised that Alaska Management decided no beards. I think the pilots are (rightly) annoyed that they are getting lied to about the reason for it, and what that says about Management. And also, that the Alaska Pilot group (as a whole) has allowed/accepted this behavior from their management in the past.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

In instances similar to this, prior HAL leadership was pretty truthful as to why they were making a decision that they were. I think that prior to that, there were some hard learned lessons about what happens when you lie to a pilot group in cases when the reality is publicly accessible to everyone.



I don't think anybody is surprised that Alaska Management decided no beards. I think the pilots are (rightly) annoyed that they are getting lied to about the reason for it, and what that says about Management. And also, that the Alaska Pilot group (as a whole) has allowed/accepted this behavior from their management in the past.

So people are ticked they voted some AC to ban beards?



I’d always been told it was due to some mask issue for safety. But then I know there are PIA pilots with long ass beards.




Reality is, most pilots would look terrible in a beard. People tend to over estimate how good they look.




Anyway. What’s the lie? The FAA AC, old as it may be, is there for anyone to read.



We’re financially insolvent, but at least our management is honest unlike yours! is the flex here?





I lost an open collar shirt, had to wear a tie, lost a base, and forced to commute 2,000 miles or move away 2,000 miles.

If the worst you lost is beards, I think y’all are doing fine.

 

[word302]

In instances similar to this, prior HAL leadership was pretty truthful as to why they were making a decision that they were. I think that prior to that, there were some hard learned lessons about what happens when you lie to a pilot group in cases when the reality is publicly accessible to everyone.



I don't think anybody is surprised that Alaska Management decided no beards. I think the pilots are (rightly) annoyed that they are getting lied to about the reason for it, and what that says about Management. And also, that the Alaska Pilot group (as a whole) has allowed/accepted this behavior from their management in the past.

The good news is most of those pilots that rolled with whatever management shoved down their throats are gone. I think you'll find that the majority here are all rowing in the same direction.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

So people are ticked they voted some AC to ban beards?



I’d always been told it was due to some mask issue for safety. But then I know there are PIA pilots with long ass beards.




Reality is, most pilots would look terrible in a beard. People tend to over estimate how good they look.




Anyway. What’s the lie? The FAA AC, old as it may be, is there for anyone to read.



We’re financially insolvent, but at least our management is honest unlike yours! is the flex here?





I lost an open collar shirt, had to wear a tie, lost a base, and forced to commute 2,000 miles or move away 2,000 miles.

If the worst you lost is beards, I think y’all are doing fine.

Voted some AC should read “quoted some AC”

Sorry can’t edit post

 

[BobDDuck]

Voted some AC should read “quoted some AC”

Sorry can’t edit post

Tell me you have no clue how an SRA works... without saying you don't know what an SRA is.

 

[BobDDuck]

The good news is most of those pilots that rolled with whatever management shoved down their throats are gone. I think you'll find that the majority here are all rowing in the same direction.

Probably not a great representation, but from the sampling on Alyeska, it's say not.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Probably not a great representation, but from the sampling on Alyeska, it's say not.

Alyeska is like APC, except a little more civil because you can’t post anonymous.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Tell me you have no clue how an SRA works... without saying you don't know what an SRA is.

My bad. The email quoted a SRA, not an AC.


But you know this isn’t just an AS thing right? At the 3 airlines I’ve worked, none allowed beards.

Honest question. Other than HAL, what other 121 airlines allow pilot beards.

 

[BobDDuck]

My bad. The email quoted a SRA, not an AC.


But you know this isn’t just an AS thing right? At the 3 airlines I’ve worked, none allowed beards.

Honest question. Other than HAL, what other 121 airlines allow pilot beards.

Sun Country, Atlas, and I think one other one.

Again the issue isn't the prohibition on beards. It's the claim that it's due to safety derived from an SRA that only SD and an admin assistant were present for, that was dated after the FOM language changes were already approved by the FAA.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Sun Country, Atlas, and I think one other one.

Again the issue isn't the prohibition on beards. It's the claim that it's due to safety derived from an SRA that only SD and an admin assistant were present for, that was dated after the FOM language changes were already approved by the FAA.

Am I to believe that SD has that much power?

 

[Stone Cold]

Sun Country, Atlas, and I think one other one.

Again the issue isn't the prohibition on beards. It's the claim that it's due to safety derived from an SRA that only SD and an admin assistant were present for, that was dated after the FOM language changes were already approved by the FAA.

Brown and Kalitta Air also. I am not sure about other ACMIs but believe there are more.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

How about among 121 passenger airlines?

Just SY?


And if it’s not safety, then why don’t United, Delta, or American have it?

 

[BobDDuck]

Am I to believe that SD has that much power?

No. Not at all. He's the most nobody CP I've ever worked under. But he's a very convenient scapegoat for the Company to pin this whole thing on.

How about among 121 passenger airlines?

Just SY?


And if it’s not safety, then why don’t United, Delta, or American have it?

Because of of their brand/image. Same reason Alaska doesn't want it.

Wait... You don't *really* believe the whole Ready Safe Go culture thing, do you?

 

[Karnage]

Also, captains shouldn’t have to wear ties. If you’re the captain of a machine *literally flying through the air at hundreds of knots* you have little time to be bothered by tying a tie. FOs, sure. Make them wear ties, but that should be the perk of upgrade - now that you’re the captain you are in charge, and people who are in charge don’t have to wear ties if they don’t want to.

Our uniform guide does, or at least did last time I read it, state that all approved neckwear is unisex. Haven’t seen any guys wearing the scarf, and I do wish the normal one was as wide and long as the 100 Year one but it’s an option. Plus the top shirt button doesn’t have to be buttoned, handy in warm places like Phoenix the surface of the sun.

 

[ppragman]

Our uniform guide does, or at least did last time I read it, state that all approved neckwear is unisex. Haven’t seen any guys wearing the scarf, and I do wish the normal one was as wide and long as the 100 Year one but it’s an option. Plus the top shirt button doesn’t have to be buttoned, handy in warm places like Phoenix the surface of the sun.

Insufficient. People in charge only where ties if they want to - anything else is unacceptable in my book. BOOOOOOOOOO

But more seriously, I had to look up the scarf. I would rock the scarf and an unbuttoned top shirt with a leather jacket. Just to do everything I could to flout uniform regulations lol. I flew for a couple years with a bandanna around my neck while I was flying the bush. It was actually kind of awesome because if it was hot in the summer it soaks up your sweat, it gives you a convenient rag if you need it, and it doesn't look "bad" - but if I look "bad" and people are judging me for it, that's their problem not mine.

I always hated wearing a uniform when I flew for a living. I especially despised it when I was flying freight. "I ain't going to prom, we are flying a plane-load of UPS packages to Bismarck, North Dakota."

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

No. Not at all. He's the most nobody CP I've ever worked under. But he's a very convenient scapegoat for the Company to pin this whole thing on.




Because of of their brand/image. Same reason Alaska doesn't want it.

Brand image of pilot beards?



You said it was just him and one admin person attending that meeting. To me it sounded like 2 people decided on the new beard policy. I doubt that’s the case.

Wait... You don't *really* believe the whole Ready Safe Go culture thing, do you?

It’s worked for me for when I’ve had to hit the pause (stop) button. And I’ve never been called out on it.

 

[Beep]

Captains have beards. This has been true for all of history. Badass captains have beards. He wasn’t “black goatee” or “black trimmed mustache” he was Black Beard.

The current trend of people to try to make everyone this perfectly trim caricature of a Juan Trippe Aviator is nonsense. If we’re going to dress like sailors it should be from the golden age of sail not a horny fever dream of Howard Hughes. If it was for any practical reason y’all would be wearing flight suits anyway… which is honestly what you should be wearing. They have good pockets.

To make it fair for the ladies I propose we bring back beards but the lady captains get a single shot pirate pistol they’re allowed to bring through security to protect themselves from • copilots and terrorists. Also a demonstrably cooler hat. That or women are allowed visible tattoos when they’re a captain. Let them decide.

Also, captains shouldn’t have to wear ties. If you’re the captain of a machine *literally flying through the air at hundreds of knots* you have little time to be bothered by tying a tie. FOs, sure. Make them wear ties, but that should be the perk of upgrade - now that you’re the captain you are in charge, and people who are in charge don’t have to wear ties if they don’t want to.

Im ok with that, as long as the beard isn't mandatory, they itch, they're uncomfortable, and motorcycle chin straps pull on them.

 

[ppragman]

Im ok with that, as long as the beard isn't mandatory, they itch, they're uncomfortable, and motorcycle chin straps pull on them.

If you are a captain you can do whatever you want - that's the privilege and curse of it.

I tell ya what, if you don't want a beard, you can be allowed a kickass hat and visible tattoos. Maybe a giant handlebar mustache? Still, the lady captains should still get something equally badass if they can't grow a beard - fair is fair.

 

[Beep]

If you are a captain you can do whatever you want - that's the privilege and curse of it.

I tell ya what, if you don't want a beard, you can be allowed a kickass hat and visible tattoos. Maybe a giant handlebar mustache? Still, the lady captains should still get something equally badass if they can't grow a beard - fair is fair.

Deal!