GolfChuck
Trustworthy Source
TeAm ND/JH is too busy policing members social media.
LGA accident
- Thread starter B200 Hawk
- Start date
phill1174
Well-Known Member
I can’t remember if LGA has Runway Status Lights or not. I’d imagine airport ops vehicles are trained on what these lights mean. Wondering if they would’ve made a difference in the outcome.
GolfChuck
Trustworthy Source
JFK does but not at every crossing. LGA certainly has the underlying tech to make them work, but considering the layout , it would not surprise me if they do not.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
There are runway entrance lights at to runway 4 at Delta at LGA.
Any of y'all know at what altitude landing traffic will trigger them?
Any of y'all know at what altitude landing traffic will trigger them?
///AMG
Well-Known Member
F*** that. I mean, I’m positive that someone is vying to use that angle. But if it happens, I’m “retiring”, will never fly an airplane or fly on an airplane again, and will find something else to do.
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
Lucky for you once AI is controlling traffic it will be easier for it just to talk directly to the plane so no need for the meat servos
GroundPilot
Well-Known Member
I don't want to be the first one to say this and I'm sure it came across a few peoples minds. When the RJ was on final, why did the crew not do a go around if they heard the trucks (I assume if the trucks were on tower frequency) were cleared to cross on RWY 4 that they were landing on?
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
What was the timing on that? From the video it looks like they literally didn’t have time to react.
GolfChuck
Trustworthy Source
To my knowledge they are triggered by speed and distance to the intersection, they are controlled by the surface radar.
NovemberEcho
Dergs favorite member
“
Bold part is mine. It’s possible the lights had extinguished before the truck reached the runway.
- Operating Characteristics – Arriving Aircraft: When an aircraft on final approach is approximately 1 mile from the runway threshold all sets of Runway Entrance Light arrays along the runway will illuminate. The distance is adjustable and can be configured for specific operations at particular airports. Lights extinguish at each equipped taxiway intersection approximately 2 to 3 seconds before the aircraft reaches it to apply anticipated separation until the aircraft has slowed to approximately 80 knots (site adjustable parameter). Below 80 knots, all arrays that are not within 30 seconds of the aircraft's forward path are extinguished. Once the arriving aircraft slows to approximately 34 knots (site adjustable parameter), it is declared to be in a taxi state, and all lights extinguish.”
Bold part is mine. It’s possible the lights had extinguished before the truck reached the runway.
CFI A&P
Exploring the world one toilet at a time.
Isn't there an airframe limitation prohibiting go-arounds once the TRs have deployed?
That's really splitting hairs over timing over who saw what, and when, but if the thrust reversers are out (not Dee Howards, but Safran/ Ontic) the math on the go around gets a little more complicated.
GroundPilot
Well-Known Member
I mean at DA for the go around but yeah with where the trucks were they were too far off left of the runway so it seemed normal to the crew. Sucks
killbilly
Vocals, Lyrics, Triangle, Washboard, Kittens
I was talking over this with someone else...
Taxiway D is 2064' down the runway - if I'm reading Jepp right, that's from the threshold, right?
I'm assuming they touched down somewhere between 1000'-1500' down the runway. Probably further but I dunno. Let's stick with 1500'.
130 knots (ballpark, I don't know what ref was, but that was about right for the -145 and it's smaller) is about 220' feet per second.
De-rotation takes...1.5 seconds? And they're decelerating so that adds some time.
Roughly 3.5... seconds to assess and correctly react with a go-around, assuming the reversers stow and power comes in?
Not sure what the lag was between the truck rolling and getting cleared but even if that adds 2 seconds to the overall timeline (doubling it) it's still awfully damn short.
Taxiway D is 2064' down the runway - if I'm reading Jepp right, that's from the threshold, right?
I'm assuming they touched down somewhere between 1000'-1500' down the runway. Probably further but I dunno. Let's stick with 1500'.
130 knots (ballpark, I don't know what ref was, but that was about right for the -145 and it's smaller) is about 220' feet per second.
De-rotation takes...1.5 seconds? And they're decelerating so that adds some time.
Roughly 3.5... seconds to assess and correctly react with a go-around, assuming the reversers stow and power comes in?
Not sure what the lag was between the truck rolling and getting cleared but even if that adds 2 seconds to the overall timeline (doubling it) it's still awfully damn short.
tcco94
Future GTA VI Pilot
Pretty sure they were damn near touching down when the radio message came across, no? • by the time they see the truck and those speeds trying to get that back in the air is probably going to kill more people, if not all vs what happened. Those guys were hosed - nothing they could do. RIP.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Yeah that’s not happening. We don’t go around after TRs deployed. And even if that wasn’t the case, there is still engine spool up. No way are you getting off in 3.5 seconds.
Curious, I checked the FAA website to check the status of accepting applicants into the Academy in OKC. Top of the page: "The application window is now closed." How will we EVER increase staffing levels if they're not even accepting applications!?
Maurus
The Great Gazoo
If the VASAviation video is synced up properly with the scope view they used they were at ~300 feet (26ish seconds to touchdown). This correlates with the timing on the audio in the video as well. The first time the tower told Truck 1 to stop was when they were at 200 feet. Roughly 17 seconds prior to the accident.
I have a feeling they may have thought the controller figured out the problem and rectified the issue even though Truck 1 never responded.
Honestly, this is definitely a failure across the board it seems.
Maurus
The Great Gazoo
If you have thousands of potentially viable applications currently on file why would you keep the window open? Unfortunately the training infrastructure we need to get more controllers is quite anemic from what I understand.