My post was about your comportment.
I'm uninterested in dancing on anyones grave as part of your political perspective. Please read it more carefully.
Youtuber Fatal Crash
- Thread starter FlyingAccountant
- Start date
My post was about your comportment.
I'm uninterested in dancing on anyones grave as part of your political perspective. Please read it more carefully.
Autothrust Blue
“If you jump on my shift, that’s just rude, man.”
ahw01
Well-Known Member
So in your world these would not be helped just weeded out. Sounds like a final solution to me..
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
No of course not.
Theres a fine line somewhere between these two:
“Hey, you need additional training. Let’s they you another 25, 50, 75, 100 hrs…”
And
“Hey look. We’ve been at this a very long time. You have (insert ungodly amount of hours of re-training). You just aren’t cut out for this, take a career change.”
I don’t know why it’s a big deal to say no to someone. I grew up with a girl in our community who went to dentistry school. Did excellent in the books. But practical hand work, she couldn’t hack it. Too nervous, hands moved all the time, the shakes or whatever you call it. She tried again and again. It’s been years since I’ve been in touch with her, but I do know is today she is not a dentist. And she’s out thousands of dollars. (Well, her parents were).
Sometimes it just doesn’t work out. And all
I’m saying is, we should have that in our career field too.
Pilot Fighter
Well-Known Member
I guess you haven’t seen student pilots with money, planes in the family, CFI’s in the family, or their own planes. Some of these folks rack up big hours as student pilots after soloing pretty quickly.
Inverted
mmmmmm wine
I routinely conduct checkrides for applicants with over 100 hours. If they meet or exceed the standard, they get a certificate. I can recount several who flew fantastically and made excellent decisions.
Total time isn't any greater a metric on whether somebody is a good pilot or not, any more than the ACS standards themselves.
Total time isn't any greater a metric on whether somebody is a good pilot or not, any more than the ACS standards themselves.
Murdoughnut
Well sized member
Yeah, good point for discussion. I bought my little money pit of a 150 so I could get my CFI and then start teaching my soon to be 14-year old son. In my head, a lot of that teaching is going to be us doing long cross country trips with the benefit being him being able to build dual hours in the years before he can even solo, but if it works out it's going to create a scenario where he has a lot of time pre PPL showing up so I wonder in some ways if that doesn't cause issues.
Kingairer
'Tiger Team' Member
I agree with you in a career context. But a private pilot isnt a career. If its a hobby they are passionate about, and want to keep throwing money at it, and eventually get "it", I dont think you are going to be able to legislate that away.
(I think I had a few hundred hours when I took my private because I started flying when I was 14).
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Pilot Fighter
Well-Known Member
It’s such a common thing that I can’t imagine how it could be an issue. If anybody is curious, the answer to follow is bound to help the candidate. “My family owned a plane and I was lucky enough to fly a lot as a student pilot”.
If you see a lot of hours pre-solo, it’s often a lack of money and infrequent instruction. If you see a lot of hours pre-PPL, the pilot has resources.
Kingairer
'Tiger Team' Member
It will not cause him problems, itll be obvious why he has so much time if he is seeking his Pvt on his 17th birthday (or there abouts).
WacoFan
Bigly
I soloed relatively quickly - around 8 hours. And the overage of 7-8.5 was that the Cessna 140 broke (tail wheel damage) by student the morning before I soloed that afternoon. So I had to spend 45-60 minutes learning to fly/land a Cessna 150 - my first nose wheel landings. I had around 80 hours when I got my PPL but about 30 of those hours were "hey Jim, fly to Hobby and pick up this part" or "fly to Aviall at Love and..." and various errand boy flying sometimes (Cherokee 140, and Tomahawk) with my check-outs being two T&G's and a full stop, leave the engine running while the CFI hops out and then launch on my task. (Had to fly whatever was available right then as I was ramp rat/gopher/Radar O'Reilly of the flight school/FBO). Absolutely not likely to pass muster today but I sure had a blast! Also not sure that my inflated hours necessarily meant I was inept when I took my PPL.
T/O w/FSII
Well-Known Member
The problem I think CC is eluding too (and I hate to agree with him here but it’s how the system works)
Is there is no limit to the amount of failures you can technically have for a check ride as long as you got the money and a DPE willing. Or you DPE shop…
Let’s say the ACS (aka the PTS) says you need to complete 10 tasks.
You go up for a check ride and bust task one.
Next check ride you pass task one but bust task 2.
Etc etc until all 10 are done and they issue you a certificate.
Now you have a PPL while demonstrating you have failed every single task at least once. The same PPL as the guy who did it perfectly.
That’s the problem. And I have seen it time and time again working in the DPE world.
And for everyone saying the FAA will find out if you lie on your medial…well…clearly not true here until they can’t find your brains or heart in the wreckage.
Is there is no limit to the amount of failures you can technically have for a check ride as long as you got the money and a DPE willing. Or you DPE shop…
Let’s say the ACS (aka the PTS) says you need to complete 10 tasks.
You go up for a check ride and bust task one.
Next check ride you pass task one but bust task 2.
Etc etc until all 10 are done and they issue you a certificate.
Now you have a PPL while demonstrating you have failed every single task at least once. The same PPL as the guy who did it perfectly.
That’s the problem. And I have seen it time and time again working in the DPE world.
And for everyone saying the FAA will find out if you lie on your medial…well…clearly not true here until they can’t find your brains or heart in the wreckage.
Inverted
mmmmmm wine
As a DPE, I can't necessarily refuse a checkride based on the grounds of a failure. Now, if somebody comes to me for a PPL, I bust them, and I bust them again, I might tell them I am going to do a full checkride and ignore the previously completed tasks, as it is my discretion. If an applicant comes to me with a couple of busted rides for the same cert or rating, I give them a full ride, oral and all. The likelihood of your scenario happening is very very unlikely.
T/O w/FSII
Well-Known Member
Well sure, 10 times is extremely unlikely. But I have seen it dozens of times at the 2-3-4 mark. And I’m actually talking about your scenario exactly. Full check ride over and over until eventually they get it right.
Then they get their instrument and it’s the same thing. Another 2-3 trys. Sure, the DPE has some discretion but the point is the person with 10 failures still has the same license as someone with zero. So we have a system that pretty much hands over a certificate *eventually* that nearly guarantees one’s death in an airplane. And they usually have passengers on board that don’t know any better.
Which is why it also comes down to the CFI to have “the talk” with the student and even fire them, which I have done a few times. But that doesn’t stop them from cross shopping schools or instructors.
My good DPE’s will even have the talk with a student, but legally they can’t stop them unless it turns into a FAA issue.
Then they get their instrument and it’s the same thing. Another 2-3 trys. Sure, the DPE has some discretion but the point is the person with 10 failures still has the same license as someone with zero. So we have a system that pretty much hands over a certificate *eventually* that nearly guarantees one’s death in an airplane. And they usually have passengers on board that don’t know any better.
Which is why it also comes down to the CFI to have “the talk” with the student and even fire them, which I have done a few times. But that doesn’t stop them from cross shopping schools or instructors.
My good DPE’s will even have the talk with a student, but legally they can’t stop them unless it turns into a FAA issue.
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
I dunno, I have a hard time getting too worked up about a couple edge cases slipping through the cracks and killing themselves and at most 3 passengers in a soda can with wings when we let people drive on highways with practically no training and exactly no recurrent checking/training.
Now if you wanna talk the 135 world where they’re flying jets and killing paying passengers, yeah, I’m on board.
Now if you wanna talk the 135 world where they’re flying jets and killing paying passengers, yeah, I’m on board.
FlyingAccountant
Well-Known Member
It sort of makes me wonder how much better of a pilot she could have been without the meds onboard. Some of the simple mistakes she was consistently making could be explained by this.
I work in a situation where I deal with the most experienced pilots and, moments later, some newbies.
Seniority, decision-making, experience, motor skills, systems knowledge are all mutually-exclusive attributes.