AirlineApps: “Why Haven’t I Heard Anything”

Autothrust Blue said:
The Captain last trip had never worked under not-117.

It's a pity it took as many accidents as it did.
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That was a long fight, my old man was lobbying for ALPA in the 80s for changes at the commuters.

But hey 21 years after 9/11 and I’ve finally started flying airplanes with secondary barriers. And the FO I was with was born in ‘97 and doesn’t remember the attack or flying before the TSA.
 
arkflyr said:
That was a long fight, my old man was lobbying for ALPA in the 80s for changes at the commuters.

But hey 21 years after 9/11 and I’ve finally started flying airplanes with secondary barriers. And the FO I was with was born in ‘97 and doesn’t remember the attack or flying before the TSA.
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That sounds about right.
 
phill1174 said:
I’m in the same boat but ask me in 20-25yrs and I’m sure I’ll be singing a different tune. I hear that a lot from our senior daddies/mommas too. It’s understandable when things that shouldn’t be a fight are.
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I think that last bit nicely sums it up.

“I can’t do my job until you’ve done yours, and why haven’t you done yours?”
 
Hiboglossi said:
"Six figures" is still above the U.S. median household income, though not by a huge amount these days- the median was apparently $83,730 in 2024, which is higher than I would have guessed.

I like how people who haven't worked at the regionals in years are insisting you're wrong how much regional pilots make and how much time off they get.
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Pay rates are posted for everyone to see. As shown below. Also, you’re comparing household median income to an entry level salary.
Autothrust Blue said:
Stick to facts.

Here are some:
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Naturally, having been gone, I don't have the tables in the PPM format, but if Angry Pilot Central is to be believed, well:
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Let's do E-Jet Copilot too!
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Oh hell, for funsies, "on the Brasilia..." ('14 was the last time the scale was updated on that airplane, and it was scandalous that we peasants briefly made the same as CRJ FOs as the airplane went away, etc.)
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Now, what nobody at SAPA has figured out (and the Company have!) is that the rates are great and all, but staffing is what is expensive (and other work rules), and that's why the Mormons don't have any, and it's why someone can't get anything more than policy manual minimum days off or have other nice things, too.

I for one am glad that regional pilots are no longer starving whilst being abused.
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The funny thing is an Envoy FO new hire made more than an AA new hire just a couple of years ago. Even still, it’s $99 vs $116. The same Envoy jumpseater I had yesterday said some flows were complaining about the pay cut :bounce:
 
CoffeeIcePapers said:
Pay rates are posted for everyone to see. As shown below. Also, you’re comparing household median income to an entry level salary.


The funny thing is an Envoy FO new hire made more than an AA new hire just a couple of years ago. Even still, it’s $99 vs $116. The same Envoy jumpseater I had yesterday said some flows were complaining about the pay cut :bounce:
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First year pay at the Yellow airline was $57.07 or something like that, which, $20 or so an hour down sucked for a year. (I was almost exclusively flying the -900 at that point.) That sucked, but I made up for it in the first few months of step two. Was worth it. It almost always is. Then I went and did it again at the Air Line.

I had to laugh that the highest earning potential career-to-date days saw me on the beach at Spirit due to various intrigues as opposed to out on the line taking advantage of same. "Whelp, I cashed in some floating days, that was nice. Anyway."
 
Skåning said:
They were $1.50 for 3 lbs at costco yesterday. Organic bunch was twice as much, but im cheap so went for the leaded ones.
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I was at a bug fair a year or so ago near the Cali Science Center and was chatting it up with a (probably very bored) officer from the USDA (because she only had brochures & was pumping the career vs. preserved butterflies and giant pet roaches) and and she told me - organic or not, if we need to spray produce on import, they are getting sprayed.

Now a days, I just buy the better looking of the bunches - trying to lean towards the organic - but knowing that everything is probably covered in DDT or the modern equivalent.

(I figure it's about $.30 each roughly.)
 
derg said:
...I don’t blame them as it’s the world they were sold a few years ago and that’s shifted for a variety of reasons.
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Ah yes, welcome to the world of commercial aviation. Ebb and flow, ebb and flow...aka hire and furlough, hire and furlough.
 
CoffeeIcePapers said:
I worked at 3 different 121 carriers, meaning I reset my seniority 3 times, and I never once worked 20 days in a month unless I picked stuff up. Also, the bigger regionals all start at 6 figures now. Endeavor tops out at 226 and Envoy tops out at 225. Not exactly chump change.

That's not true, at all. There are plenty of lifers at Skywest and other regionals who have no interest in even applying for a job anywhere else. Some have flows that they have turned down.

You're letting your decisions and circumstances cloud the fact that in the grand scheme of things, you have a great job. You're just in a tough spot right now, but it will get better, whether it's at your current job or you move on to bigger and better.


At AA, just hiring for straight retirements, and no other attrition, we will still need on average 500+ per year for the better part of 2 decades. This doesn't account for deliveries of new aircraft (I never count on that), or attrition outside of retirement.

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I've been at AA a year and have 1000 under me with weekly classes of 60 running for the foreseeable future. Is it 2022 (when I got an interview at DL as a new CA at a regional without a 4 year degree), no. It's still far better than I ever remember it being getting started in this career and choosing the 135 route to start because regionals still paid $20/hr to start and the hottest major was US Airways who was paying senior A330 CA's less than I make on year 2 pay on the narrowbody as an FO.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
Stick to facts.

Here are some:
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Yes, I looked at the APC page about SkyWest last night. Didn't see anything about the monthly minimum guarantee but I remember the conventional wisdom is your annual income is usually around 1,000 times the hourly rate, so I don't know why you would expect FOs there to make 6 figures their first few years. Sure, those rates are certainly more than I ever made at the regionals (or my first year at my current airline for that matter), and I didn't escape super long ago in the grand scheme of things.

Kingairer said:
Things are F-in fantastic now, and if still seems bad, than thats a personal issue.
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At the airlines, mostly yes. My understanding is it's a very pilot-unfriendly market for low time jobs right now, and also getting to the regionals has been pretty difficult for most of the post-pandemic era so far.

It's obviously true that things are a lot better at the regionals than they were pre-pandemic and especially pre-mid 2010s hiring wave and pre-117, and that regional pilot pay has outpaced inflation significantly over the last decade. But legacy pilot pay has outpaced inflation even more. I think it's rather pathetic that we have legacy pilots, who make overwhelmingly more than the regional payscales we've been discusseing to work a lot less than Shark does, are so bitter that those currently at the regionals aren't suffering enough.
 
CoffeeIcePapers said:
The funny thing is an Envoy FO new hire made more than an AA new hire just a couple of years ago. Even still, it’s $99 vs $116. The same Envoy jumpseater I had yesterday said some flows were complaining about the pay cut :bounce:
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Ok, that's insane. If you're at a regional the pay cut you should be worried about is the 100% pay cut you'll incur in the extremely likely event you get "Comaired".

You don't see it one here as much nowadays, but back when more of this website's userbase was at the regionals people would make fun of Regional Lifers who said they "couldn't afford the paycut" to go to mainline. Not sure how common it was for it to even be a paycut to go to mainline, I suspect situations like what you're describing with Envoy/ AA are very much the exception rather than the rule, but I always assumed by that the "can't afford the paycut" line was copium from people who couldn't escare regional hell more than anything. But apparently not in this case since it's pilots flowing to mainline. You'd think they'd just be happy about getting one of the top jobs on the planet where they'll make several times more than the highest paid pilot at Envoy in a year or 2.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
I think that last bit nicely sums it up.

“I can’t do my job until you’ve done yours, and why haven’t you done yours?”
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Yep! Last trip there was a fight about having ramp crew for parking and the methods Brown use on ramp 9 in ASAP corner (iykyk). After it was all done I just looked at the captain and said “this is what I have to look forward to for the next 30yrs”.

I’d be happy to tell the story over beer but it was crazy/sad to see a captain who’s usually at a 1 maybe 2 get upset, and rightfully so.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
First year pay at the Yellow airline was $57.07 or something like that, which, $20 or so an hour down sucked for a year. (I was almost exclusively flying the -900 at that point.) That sucked, but I made up for it in the first few months of step two. Was worth it. It almost always is. Then I went and did it again at the Air Line.

I had to laugh that the highest earning potential career-to-date days saw me on the beach at Spirit due to various intrigues as opposed to out on the line taking advantage of same. "Whelp, I cashed in some floating days, that was nice. Anyway."
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Hell it’s still 57-59 bucks at Brown. I have no idea how folks with families do it, and I’d say that’s a big chunk of our new hires with the average new hire age being in the 40’s.

I REALLY hope it’s something that’s fixed in the future but with the reasoning of “but year 2 pay is 220” I doubt it’ll change.
 
Hiboglossi said:
Yes, I looked at the APC page about SkyWest last night. Didn't see anything about the monthly minimum guarantee but I remember the conventional wisdom is your annual income is usually around 1,000 times the hourly rate, so I don't know why you would expect FOs there to make 6 figures their first few years. Sure, those rates are certainly more than I ever made at the regionals (or my first year at my current airline for that matter), and I didn't escape super long ago in the grand scheme of things.
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I’m sure SharkHeart’s RES guarantee is 75:36 or thereabouts, or whatever the MDG times the number of RAPs is, which is how they got to 75:36 circa 2015.

I’d be surprised if an outfit so primitive has tied it to (any of) ALV, TLV or RMLV, as so doing would be a huge cost pressure against short staffing.
 
The Air Beachball guarantee is 64 hours, and I rarely break that. We just opened contract negotiations and we're all hoping that gets fixed.
 
To the thread title;

Did you apply?

I was riding the jumpseat on a regional carrier not long ago and was introducing myself and the captain asked if I could help him get a job. At the time I’m not sure if the window was open, but I asked him if he had applied or had an application in and he said no I told him that would be a good place to start.
 
phill1174 said:
I’d be happy to tell the story over beer but it was crazy/sad to see a captain who’s usually at a 1 maybe 2 get upset, and rightfully so.
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I think the only time I've gone 'high order' in the past 5 years or so is when a flight attendant walked off the jet and called in sick (which is fine, ordinarily), but because their pass riders wouldn't be going with us as we were both oversold and weight-restricted a few weeks back.

No, not making it up. Wish I was.
 
scooter2525 said:
At the time I’m not sure if the window was open, but I asked him if he had applied or had an application in and he said no I told him that would be a good place to start.
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I'm not sure that is necessarily a stupid question, as lots of (non aviation) places I've worked and applied to had policies not to consider referrals or recommendations for applications already submitted. Which you would have had no way of knowing without asking first.
 
drunkenbeagle said:
I'm not sure that is necessarily a stupid question, as lots of (non aviation) places I've worked and applied to had policies not to consider referrals or recommendations for applications already submitted. Which you would have had no way of knowing without asking first.
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It’s more like sits on jump seat “YEW GOT YOWERRRRR APP IN?” most of the time
 
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