UPS MD-11 crash at SDF
- Thread starter FlyingAccountant
- Start date
BEEF SUPREME
Well-Known Member
Yeah that was the entire point of the conversation. Thanks for adding your knowledgeable insight.
WacoFan
Bigly
Okay smart guy...
After I made my poast I got thinking about the hilarity of slipping these swept wing monstrosities and it made me think - what about a Tomcat when you got the wings all straight like when Mav hits the brakes? Could you slip a F-14 if the wings were straight?
WacoFan
Bigly
There is no amount of peen measuring you will not engage in with CC, is there?
BEEF SUPREME
Well-Known Member
I'm not a big fan of these Kobayashi Maru scenarios for simulator training. We get them once every 3-5 years and in my mind they are utterly pointless and have a bad training outcome. The last one involved rushing through checklists to land at Juneau with bad weather and 1/2 of the instruments inop. Later we had 1/2 dozen unnecessary engine shutdowns and return to the airfield on the line. The primary cause was: rushing through checklists.
BEEF SUPREME
Well-Known Member
If you're going to be an idiot and state the obvious while quoting my posts the end result will always be the same. Thanks for playing though, all star bush pilot man.
Probably could, as the sweep is comparatively less at that point with wings forward; and more importantly, with where the wings are mounted on a Tomcat, there’s less fuselage blanking/spoiling effects of airflow interruption over the inside wing when significant yaw inputs are made in a slip.
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
I thought the trigger to that was an older CQ scenario with an actual fuel leak
BEEF SUPREME
Well-Known Member
Most of the incidents peaked after we were trained to rush through the checklists to save one sick passenger by diverting to Juneau. Misunderstandings about how the system worked and incomplete training on the fuel leak scenario definitely contributed to the issue.
WacoFan
Bigly
Soul Brotha'
Off to go do Black guy stuff
At BlueJuice Factory, at a recurrent a couple of years back, there was a safety video of an A320 crew landing in FLL. They were really high and I assume the CA slipped it down. The whole class just sat there with shock and disbelief. One guy asked if this was real because no crew would be that stupid to attempt this.
WacoFan
Bigly
I mean...if they wanted to put it on PPV I'd watch Tom Cruise try it.
Aerodynamically, probably not an issue for the Tomcat in that configuration. Only reservation would be potential for engine compressor stalls with potential airflow interruptions at the intakes during significant yaw inputs,
WacoFan
Bigly
Theoretically same for F-111 too?
Autothrust Blue
”…trusting ze process…”
I was gonna chip in that last bit there.
A300Capt
Freight Dawg
Why? Just go around and try again. Their lack of descent planning should not constitute an emergency maneuver on your part
Late 80’s. I was a brand new wet behind the ears f/o with a VERY senior and well liked Capt. Short East coast to West coast of Florida flight. ATC must’ve forgot about us and we started TOD late. Captain did everything but throw an anchor out to get down and was determined to make it work. With a grand total of about 30 hrs in the airplane and about 100 hrs total in flying big jets I cautiously asked him if WE were gonna be able to get down in time for the straight in visual? He was a very good stick and rudder guy but somewhat of a known cowboy in a jet.
He looked at me with a slight grin and a wink and said, “Watch this..” and the next thing I know he’s slipping the crap outta the jet out of around 10k ft. I was too young, new and green to know any better and back in those days you simply didn’t questioned a senior Capt on “technique”. Not justifying or condoning his actions nor did I think about things like possible compressor stalls or stresses on the aircraft during a slip and would never do it during normal ops.
I did do it one time during an MD11 recurrent in the sim when we were on fire and there wasn’t gonna be a GA attempt. We were gonna die if the we didn’t land on the first attempt. We were a little fast and high and I slipped it and we made it within the time constraints given. The only comment from the instructor was asking if I came up flying taildraggers? Said he had only seen a few GA guys slip the jet. Told him I was running out of time and options and had nothing to lose at that point.
Likely so, as the TF30 that early Tomcats and all F-111s used was sensitive to airflow interruptions at the inlet. The F-111, as I understand, didn’t have the number of compressor stall incidents that the Tomcat did due to its better inlet design.
Agreed. And really, jet engines themselves, some more than others, but jet engines all don’t agree with flow interruptions to them. We’d been talking the aerodynamics of this, but then i remembered the engines part too.
Airflow interruption can happen in pod-mounted engines, but internal fuselage engines such as tactical jets, are particularly susceptible with yaw inputs and fuselage blanking. Why coordinated flight during hard maneuvering such as dogfighting, is important.
WacoFan
Bigly
Then MavCruise would have to punch out and he'd hit the canopy and die and be reunited with Goose. And I would be given a choice - inherit his Mustang, or Jennifer Connelly. I'll stop there because I don't wanna let more spoilers out on what I'd choose in the new movie I'm writing called "TopGun III - Maverick buys the farm". But here is a clue:
View: https://youtu.be/rjlSiASsUIs?si=FDcH-r3q1NFXm5og
Richman
JC’s Resident Curmudgeon
If ya ain't cheatin', ya ain't tryin'
