UPS MD-11 crash at SDF
- Thread starter FlyingAccountant
- Start date
Only the short crossing runway, 29, has an EMAS at SDF. This runway appears to be 17R, the longest there at just shy of 12,000’ length.
Correct on EMAS; it’s an expensive installation that will only be purchased for specific purposes of end safety. And like you mention, would’ve done nothing here even if there was a standard length EMAS installation (most EMAS are not standard length, often much shorter, just due to the amount of room available to install one at a given airport). The MD-11, or any airplane, with that high amount of kinetic energy, would’ve blown through an EMAS bed as if it weren’t even there.
AA191 was a Mx error on engine replacements that AA had created that wasn’t endorsed by McD, that caused the failure of that engine pylon. Had nothing to do with the DC-10 itself, but the NTSB screwup during the investigation made it appear it was the DC-10 design deficiency, which it wasn’t.. Something the DC-10 didn’t deserve
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
A laundry list of CF6s have failed spectacularly over the years, of course most famously UAL232, and fairly recently an AAL 767 in ORD which ended in an abort right before V1 and the aircraft burning very substantially.
Obviously we know very little but it’s the kind of thing that would leave a large chunk of nacelle on the runway and cause a spectacular fire on the wing. One does wonder what else was damaged that the aircraft wouldn’t lift off with 2 operating engines, and in that respect may have some similarity to AAL 191
DropTank
Well-Known Member
I am well versed in the accident, thank you.
But you missed the question
Can a catastrophic engine failure disable the hydraulics in a similar way?
Depends. What failed and how, and if uncontained, where things/pieces go.
DropTank
Well-Known Member
An A380 popped a engine and disabled aerodynamic controls and engine controls for the left side.
The MD was going to Hawaii, and likely heavy.
Losing an engine would be a problem... but not the end of the world.
Losing an engine AND left side controls is .... tragic.
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
Jeebus. That’s awful.
The other thing that killed 191 was their speed, specifically their reduction in speed following liftoff. They had some excess speed, which was unknowingly compensating for the missing LE devices on the left wing. Following their training, the crew slowed to the climb speed they were trained to go to, which unknowingly, was where the asymmetric lift could no longer be compensated for. Of course the training was changed after that. Point being, even with that damage they incurred in that incident, the jet was still flyable with the speed it had attained.
Lots of variables in any of these events.
Curious if the right engine was producing full thrust. Or if it was potentially damaged in some way such as FOD. Ie- did they really have two remaining good engines. FDR will reveal.
knot4u
Repeat Offender
A lot of that MX error was also due to leaky hydraulics on a forklift and a shift change.That accident changed MX, it happened long before my time but the changes made are still in place regarding shift turnovers and following the AMM rather than having an in house method approved by the company because it's more expedient.
🦈💜
Well-Known Member
Is that the origin of V2 - V2+10?
I believe that’s where it came from. They were at something like V2+12 or so (I don’t remember the exact, but that’s close), and the jet was flying fine. The crew had no idea they were instant test pilots at that time, sadly. The training was to slow back to V2, for climb performance and/or obstacle/terrain clearance I imagine, but that did them in.
Me personally, in the jets I’ve flown….mostly being power-deficient ones compared to weight…. on a single engine Go, we were always trained that speed is life, get as much as you can and keep it in the bank to use as you come back around to land. Never give it up unless its needed. Especially if it’s VMC and terrain/obstacle avoidance visually isn’t an issue.
EIR
It's 5 o'clock somewhere
I met him a handful of times. He was a class act. They will be missed.He was currently the #1 MD Capt. I would’ve been #2 behind him. Great guy! Well liked and very experienced! RIP…
Hard to tell in the video, but just at the MD appears to break ground, right as the camera zooms in, I’m not sure if it’s a camera anomaly or if it’s something, but there appears to be a compressor stall or FODing of the center or right engine possibly. Again, that would have to be confirmed, but something flashes there very quickly at that moment.
DropTank
Well-Known Member
Also kind of my point. I'm guessing the crew is very familiar with AA191
Looks like the PF is using extra runway to get extra speed to get extra control (more air over remaining control surfaces).
If they rotated and sensed insufficient roll control, then delayed any additional rotation.
As for #3 not producing 100% power:
I've seen 1 low slung engine pop and take out the low slung engine on the opposite side, twice.
One was a 737 and one was a 767.
Note: I cannot see any evidence on the video to support that.
CVR will reveal the former, FDR the latter. As long as both of those devices survived the conflagration with useable data, both of these should be fairly straightforward to determine. Be interesting to see.
