2 people safely eject from jet that later crashed during Thunder Over Michigan air show 8/13/2023

[Wardogg]

That was a close one

Another witness that’s flown in the accident aircraft says had they waited any long they probably wouldn’t have made it whether they punched out or not. I think a lot of us were making fun of the back seater but he may have saved their lives that day. Luckily no one on the ground was hurt.

 

[MikeD]

Another witness that’s flown in the accident aircraft says had they waited any long they probably wouldn’t have made it whether they punched out or not. I think a lot of us were making fun of the back seater but he may have saved their lives that day. Luckily no one on the ground was hurt.

Delayed ejection decision to an out-of-envelope ejection attempt, has proven fatal time and time again.

 

[Pilot Fighter]

Delayed ejection decision to an out-of-envelope ejection attempt, has proven fatal time and time again.

In the S-3, with nobody in the back, turning off crew eject in both pilot and cotac positions buys the front seats .52 seconds.

 

[MikeD]

In the S-3, with nobody in the back, turning off crew eject in both pilot and cotac positions buys the front seats .52 seconds.

Once VS became mostly tanker ops, were the back seat AWs no longer carried?

 

[Pilot Fighter]

Once VS became mostly tanker ops, were the back seat AWs no longer carried?

As soon as the ASW mission was lost, the AW’s disappeared immediately, replaced with seat ballast.

In the sea control era, you would have a TACCO in the back unless it was a dedicated recovery tanker sortie close to the boat.

 

[MikeD]

As soon as the ASW mission was lost, the AW’s disappeared immediately, replaced with seat ballast.

In the sea control era, you would have a TACCO in the back unless it was a dedicated recovery tanker sortie close to the boat.

What did the Shadow have for a back end crew? The VQ birds?

 

[Pilot Fighter]

What did the Shadow have for a back end crew? The VQ birds?

Most commonly, two AW’s. There were some mission-specific exceptions.

 

[///AMG]

Another witness that’s flown in the accident aircraft says had they waited any long they probably wouldn’t have made it whether they punched out or not. I think a lot of us were making fun of the back seater but he may have saved their lives that day. Luckily no one on the ground was hurt.

Sounds like he most definitely saved their lives. Even without that witness testimony, just the parameters they were in, especially on an old ass soviet seat that didn’t have a great track record to begin with…….hell, 300 ish AGL (while also descending at several hundred ft/min I’d assume), you dont have many more seconds even in a modern western MB seat. Especially if you pile on the AoA and start rolling over (though it sounds like the PIC did a decent job of not really doing that at least). It is interestingly apparent in the report that they probably aren’t friends anymore and aren’t going to the others bday party now

 

[Boris Badenov]

It is interestingly apparent in the report that they probably aren’t friends anymore and aren’t going to the others bday party now

It also seems to me that the accident investigators were not real impressed with the notion of an imminent relight at 300ft or dead-sticking a freaking jet into a field.

 

[Roger Roger]

It also seems to me that the accident investigators were not real impressed with the notion of an imminent relight at 300ft or dead-sticking a freaking jet into a field.

Yeah, I read this stuff when it first came out and it seemed to me that the front seater was in a river in Egypt shortly before he was dangling under a chute.

 

[FlyingAccountant]

Sounds like he most definitely saved their lives. Even without that witness testimony, just the parameters they were in, especially on an old ass soviet seat that didn’t have a great track record to begin with…….hell, 300 ish AGL (while also descending at several hundred ft/min I’d assume), you dont have many more seconds even in a modern western MB seat. Especially if you pile on the AoA and start rolling over (though it sounds like the PIC did a decent job of not really doing that at least). It is interestingly apparent in the report that they probably aren’t friends anymore and aren’t going to the others bday party now

Am I imagining this, or was the PIC involved in another crash after this Mig 23 inchident?

EDIT: It was the backseater, he was involved in that L39 crash in Minnesota where he punched out(again) and the guy he was instructing died.

Probably the only guy in the world who's ejected twice from a civilian owned fighter type aircraft.

 

[Roger Roger]

Am I imagining this, or was the PIC involved in another crash after this Mig 23 inchident?

one of the two was recently posted in some other high profile accident. I forget which

 

[Wardogg]

It also seems to me that the accident investigators were not real impressed with the notion of an imminent relight at 300ft or dead-sticking a freaking jet into a field.

You know, I went back and watched the videos. It’s not like they were falling out of the sky like a rock.

My life isn’t on the line in the back seat without any control either. So…

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

Sounds like he most definitely saved their lives. Even without that witness testimony, just the parameters they were in, especially on an old ass soviet seat that didn’t have a great track record to begin with…….hell, 300 ish AGL (while also descending at several hundred ft/min I’d assume), you dont have many more seconds even in a modern western MB seat. Especially if you pile on the AoA and start rolling over (though it sounds like the PIC did a decent job of not really doing that at least). It is interestingly apparent in the report that they probably aren’t friends anymore and aren’t going to the others bday party now

I'd like to think they aren't torturing the FOs on the line anymore either. Probably having their caretaker drive them to P.T. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

 

[Skåning]

Yeah, I read this stuff when it first came out and it seemed to me that the front seater was in a river in Egypt shortly before he was dangling under a chute.

Judgement clouded by it being this plane? Also how can an airline guy afford a supersonic jet?

The PIC, who was the owner of the airplane

 

[MikeD]

It also seems to me that the accident investigators were not real impressed with the notion of an imminent relight at 300ft or dead-sticking a freaking jet into a field.

Has a successful dead stick landing of a tactical jet in a field been accomplished? Yes.

Is it generally a successful endeavor to perform, especially in this case when they were at such a low altitude and low energy state? No. Ejection was the right call. The PIC was likely letting his feelings of owning the jet, influence bad decision making.

The one jet that did survive a forced landing into a field? F-106 Delta Dart 58-0787, which in 1970 was doing some dogfight training, departed controlled flight into a spin, pilot couldn’t recover even with deploying the drag chute and ejected. With the weight and CG change due to the canopy, seat, and pilot now gone, the Delta Dart recovered itself from the spin and into a high speed dive that tore off the drag chute. The jet then recovered from the dive and back to its trimmed state, flying around until it ran low on fuel, to where it entered a shallow descent and made a gear up landing in a farmers field in Montana, all on its own. It was found, recovered, repaired, and placed back in service to be the last active duty F-106 in the USAF, as it never went to the ANG. It was retired in the early 1980s and is now on display at the USAF museum.

But yeah, the case of 58-0787 is definitely a one-off fluke, and not the recommended thing to attempt to do. This was entirely the jet’s own decision in this case.

 

[Roger Roger]

Also how can an airline guy afford a supersonic jet?

I’m guessing there’s a few factors. First, cost of acquisition is artificially low. Then the cost of operation hits… second, I imagine there’s is some kind of business/nonprofit/thing helping fund it.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

I’m guessing there’s a few factors. First, cost of acquisition is artificially low. Then the cost of operation hits… second, I imagine there’s is some kind of business/nonprofit/thing helping fund it.

The "Mig 23 historical heritage foundation LLC thingy" massive tax write off.

"Look at me I own a cool jet"