Alaska Hawaiian Merger

Roger Roger said:
Hey man, I wasn’t around to vote on it. Seems like a bunch of folks just saw the $$$ signs and either didnt read the fine print, or didn’t care since the vast majority of pilots aren’t reserves. There’s probably a lesson in there for this process, should we choose to see it.
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I voted no with ALV and reserve as a principal concern. Granted my concern with ALV was focused on the high end. I don't think anyone saw the low end issues ahead of the Boeing debacle.
 
BEEF SUPREME said:
I voted no with ALV and reserve as a principal concern. Granted my concern with ALV was focused on the high end. I don't think anyone saw the low end issues ahead of the Boeing debacle.
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High end, yeah, that’s a thing. Low end? That’s why there’s a min guarantee. IMHO.
 
BEEF SUPREME said:
It's lunacy it was set up as it is now to begin with. Zero protections from unlimited conversions. Zero protections from circadian flips.
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Roger Roger said:
Hey man, I wasn’t around to vote on it. Seems like a bunch of folks just saw the $$$ signs and either didnt read the fine print, or didn’t care since the vast majority of pilots aren’t reserves. There’s probably a lesson in there for this process, should we choose to see it.
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Outside of SEA, reserve seems to be going senior. At least on the CA side.



And as a short call guy, I’m slightly peeved there’s no more late SCRs. They realized they can just convert day 1 folks at midnight, give them 14 hrs rest, and put them on short RAP anytime after 2pm. That’s why the latest short call RAPs starts times are now still before noon.
 
BobDDuck said:
Hawaiian has solid language (that's followed by the company) in the PWA already.
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The "company" is Alaskan Airlines now, hopefully they keep following it

Roger Roger said:
Hey man, I wasn’t around to vote on it. Seems like a bunch of folks just saw the $$$ signs and either didnt read the fine print, or didn’t care since the vast majority of pilots aren’t reserves. There’s probably a lesson in there for this process, should we choose to see it.
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I LOVE being converted to short call. I wish i'd get it every time but reserve goes senior and they request it. Ideally i'd get converted all 18 reserve days.

BEEF SUPREME said:
I voted no with ALV and reserve as a principal concern. Granted my concern with ALV was focused on the high end. I don't think anyone saw the low end issues ahead of the Boeing debacle.
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You also upgraded thinking everything would be status quo, not realizing scheduling changes were coming. Oops
 
Skåning said:
The "company" is Alaskan Airlines now, hopefully they keep following it
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The good news is that the PWA language has several years of operational and enforcement (including a settlement agreement) history behind it. As long as that language exists in the PWA (and if it is specifically carried forward in the JCBA) it would be pretty hard for a new management group to change their interpretation of it, especially with the SAs that come with it. Also, we have a robust grievance/contract enforcement process, so if they were to suddenly change things up while we are still under that section of the PWA as well, it would have an avenue to get resolved quickly.

One annoying thing that the new boss is doing is LCR conversions. We've had LCR for almost 4 years now and the company has never converted a pilot (although they are able to). Now suddenly they are converting people for absolutely no reason because it's the Alaska Way.
 
BobDDuck said:
One annoying thing that the new boss is doing is LCR conversions. We've had LCR for almost 4 years now and the company has never converted a pilot (although they are able to). Now suddenly they are converting people for absolutely no reason because it's the Alaska Way.
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They have been operating under this new scheduling system for 15 months and on the Guppy side they STILL havent figured it out. Reserve staffing is short and they are super inconsistent from day to day on conversions. It's wild that with such a large operation the haven't gotten it dialed in by now. They do lots of crap like a little Mom n Pop operation, which they havent been since prior to the VX acquisition.
 
Roger Roger said:
High end, yeah, that’s a thing. Low end? That’s why there’s a min guarantee. IMHO.
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The low end wasn't an issue for me. However, it was for those on the pension plan. And those who thought we should furlough to bring the ALV up (again not me).

As evidenced by this thread: The primary concern of the pilot group seems to be working extra on days off. This doesn't give me the warm n' fuzzies about the outcome of the JCBA.

Other than financially being able to swing retirement early.
 
BEEF SUPREME said:
Most junior captain in SEA 1000 number 2007 hire.
Most junior captain in PDX 1200 number. 2012 hire.

The junior ANC captain appears to be due to a downgrade. I can't imagine why.
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Be honest, show all the junior FOs who got awarded upgrade

ANC - 11/2016
LAX - 10/2016
PDX - 11/2012
SEA - 10/2007
SFO - 02/2016

Sub 9 year upgrades after zero movement for 2 years on a tiny bid (20 slots). Next bid will come shortly and the upgrade time will continue to drop.
Oh and you moved up a number Nostradamus. Congrats!
 
Skåning said:
Be honest, show all the junior FOs who got awarded upgrade

ANC - 11/2016
LAX - 10/2016
PDX - 11/2012
SEA - 10/2007
SFO - 02/2016

Sub 9 year upgrades after zero movement for 2 years on a tiny bid (20 slots). Next bid will come shortly and the upgrade time will continue to drop.
Oh and you moved up a number Nostradamus. Congrats!
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Shhhh

I'm counting the number of people ahead of @word302 who want to upgrade in PDX but were denied. I'm up to 57 and I'm still in the 2200 seniority range. lol
 
Here's a reminder in case you forgot what you were delusional about:

BEEF SUPREME said:
You won’t upgrade until year 10 at this rate. The senior FOs have realized that being able to upgrade isn’t something they can do whenever they feel like. Or when little Johnny has gone off to collage. Or whenever.

They missed the boat. Bigly. And they won’t have another opportunity for at least a year but most likely two. So the more senior FOs will be at the front of the line for the next bids and those are years away.
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BEEF SUPREME said:
The most junior upgrade on the last bid was 13 years at AS. You can die mad about it. Or just understand that a lot of people put in for SEA captain and they didn't get it until they were 14-18 years in. One guy got SFO captain who was at 13. We also are not growing on the 737 side, we are in fact, reducing the fleet size. So there won't be an upgrade bid anytime soon. It's far more likely there will be a reduction bid.

At least @Cherokee_Cruiser acknowledged there was a behavior change. Senior FOs are trying to upgrade and they can't. They will keep trying. Until they can upgrade the upgrades will go very senior. I'm pretty sure how lucky you were when it came to hiring and how lucky I was when it came to upgrade (or stupid). Those times are gone. They will never come back.
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BEEF SUPREME said:
Yeah and best case, in 3 years those same people will still be on short call. Or pushed down to the circadian flips of long call convertible reserve by senior FOs. That's what I'm saying.
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BEEF SUPREME said:
And a lot of them are now very interested in the upgrade. That's why it's going to be very senior, for a long time.
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BEEF SUPREME said:
Exactly. Probably a 15-20 year wait to hold captain in PDX.
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PDX most junior awarded was 13 years
SEA goes to a 2007 hire most junior award this year.

I said not until year 10 for the most junior base. It went to year 9. That doesn't seem too far off to me.

It's the equivalent of being wrong about no hiring in 2025 and we hire less than 1% of the pilot group. Effective November of that year. My bad. I was 1 month off.
 
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