DUI effect on current employment

jrh

jrh

Well-Known Member
I apologize if this has been covered before. I tried searching the forums and could only find posts referencing the effect of a DUI on future employment options, not one's current employment.

Let's say a pilot gets a DUI outside of anything work related. It happens on their days off and isn't covered under Part 40 / DOT drug test requirements.

The pilot reports it to their employer and has 60 days to report it to the FAA.

If this happened at your shop, how would this be handled by the employer? Under what circumstances would they be allowed to return to flying?
 
Corporate here. Saw this happen here once. Pilot was let go by HR. Reason being that they could no longer freely travel to our frequent international destinations. Canada is the big one. They will deny pilots with DUIs who haven’t been deemed rehabilitated by them. Also makes flying around the rest of the world tough. Many countries specifically Asian countries have you fill a slip out that ask about prior convictions when you enter.
 
What does the employment agreement say? Do you have steps and procedures to cover this? If not, there is literally no legal reason to report it to the employer. It's between the FAA and the pilot. Easy for me to say as a guy who worked at airlines covered by union contracts.

Now, if I were you, and to answer you question. There are steps the pilot has to take with the FAA. Did he follow all those steps? When it goes to court, he'll likely plead down and part of the agreement will be an alcohol assessment with a counselor and/or alcohol education classes, ect. I would wait to see if he complies with all the court requirements. If he did, I'd let him fly. You could institute alcohol testing. You could have a "come to Jesus" discussion with him and go with your gut feeling.

Because of the type of operation you run, this is a more difficult situation. Likely your clients would not want to fly with a guy who had a DUI, period. Especially in a single pilot aircraft. That makes this a harder thing for you to deal with. If you think it's too risky to keep him on from a client perspective then you'd have to let him go. For sure talk to the company attorney.

It's interesting just now reading up on this that an "arrest" does not require a 60 days notice but would have to be reported on the next medical.
 
Inverted25 said:
Corporate here. Saw this happen here once. Pilot was let go by HR. Reason being that they could no longer freely travel to our frequent international destinations. Canada is the big one. They will deny pilots with DUIs who haven’t been deemed rehabilitated by them. Also makes flying around the rest of the world tough. Many countries specifically Asian countries have you fill a slip out that ask about prior convictions when you enter.
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I was told once that Canada might not accept any "deemed rehabilitation" for close to 10 years after event?
Not my issue, i heard that second hand but whatever it was it was a big deal I don't think the person ever fixed it.
 
Cut and paste of the Canada question:
If you committed an offence outside Canada that, if committed in Canada, would be an indictable offence punishable by a maximum term of imprisonment of less than ten years:

  • You are deemed rehabilitated: at least ten years after commission of the offence.
  • You are eligible to apply for rehabilitation: five (5) years after commission of the offence
 
My follow up question (less so for Canada issues). How would China or other Asian countries know? I’m guessing USA shares data with Canada on this stuff.
 
sorrygottarunway said:
My follow up question (less so for Canada issues). How would China or other Asian countries know? I’m guessing USA shares data with Canada on this stuff.
Click to expand...
They don’t. Lots of people check no and go on with their lives. If you need a Chinese visa depending on what visa you are applying for you may have to get a background check signed off by the state department showing no criminal history. For the most part you can get away with not disclosing. But more and more countries are requiring electronic travel visas and the question is asked on those as well. So how often do you want to lie and hope that sharing of criminal records doesn’t expand in the future. As far as Canada goes they have access to the US database.
 
DE727UPS said:
Cut and paste of the Canada question:
If you committed an offence outside Canada that, if committed in Canada, would be an indictable offence punishable by a maximum term of imprisonment of less than ten years:

  • You are deemed rehabilitated: at least ten years after commission of the offence.
  • You are eligible to apply for rehabilitation: five (5) years after commission of the offence
Click to expand...
Yep. And it’s not automatic after ten years. You have to pay a lawyer thousands to file the paperwork and officially get you deemed rehabilitated.
 
Inverted25 said:
Yep. And it’s not automatic after ten years. You have to pay a lawyer thousands to file the paperwork and officially get you deemed rehabilitated.
Click to expand...

When I heard about the story, he said that he could send a form, and supporting documents, there was a reasonably large processing fee, and it was all a "maybe" if it would get approved. Of course a lawyer can do all that and probably knows the gotchas if there are any
 
I just kinda wonder why folks put themselves through this? Not trying to be judgy, and also not my life to live, but this is a great job that pays really well (at least eventually). My personal driving BAC is right around 0.0%. That’s what i have my wife for. And if she isn’t around to DD, I call an uber……$25-50 is a small price to pay. Don’t mean to rant or be that “guy”, but we have had a couple guys I fly with on the military side get nailed out in town in the last few months and I wish I could have bought their uber. They have no idea what lifetime/career income they just threw in the trash can because they didn’t want to pay cab fare (not to mention that they can’t fly military airplanes anymore either).
 
Inverted25 said:
Yep. And it’s not automatic after ten years. You have to pay a lawyer thousands to file the paperwork and officially get you deemed rehabilitated.
Click to expand...
Another way to gain access to Canada is to have your record expunged. I would imagine that would be way cheaper than rehabilitation.
 
///AMG said:
I just kinda wonder why folks put themselves through this? Not trying to be judgy, and also not my life to live, but this is a great job that pays really well (at least eventually). My personal driving BAC is right around 0.0%. That’s what i have my wife for. And if she isn’t around to DD, I call an uber……$25-50 is a small price to pay. Don’t mean to rant or be that “guy”, but we have had a couple guys I fly with on the military side get nailed out in town in the last few months and I wish I could have bought their uber. They have no idea what lifetime/career income they just threw in the trash can because they didn’t want to pay cab fare (not to mention that they can’t fly military airplanes anymore either).
Click to expand...

Turns out people don’t make the best decisions when they have been drinking.

Very similar to fatigue.

But what do I know? 🤷‍♂️
 
The Commonwealth nations have developed a really ugly totalitarian streak, and it mostly flies under the radar unless you live or try to travel there.
 
guywhoflies said:
Another way to gain access to Canada is to have your record expunged. I would imagine that would be way cheaper than rehabilitation.
Click to expand...
Idk if that works. Canadian customs has access to FBI database and expunged records remain on federal database. They are only expunged from local and state level records.
 
I can't speak for what the company may or may not do. But one thing I found in doing a quick search is that if your BAC was .15 or higher, that is an automatic deferral by your AME. There is a form they will have to fill out and submit.
 
///AMG said:
I just kinda wonder why folks put themselves through this? Not trying to be judgy, and also not my life to live, but this is a great job that pays really well (at least eventually). My personal driving BAC is right around 0.0%. That’s what i have my wife for. And if she isn’t around to DD, I call an uber……$25-50 is a small price to pay. Don’t mean to rant or be that “guy”, but we have had a couple guys I fly with on the military side get nailed out in town in the last few months and I wish I could have bought their uber. They have no idea what lifetime/career income they just threw in the trash can because they didn’t want to pay cab fare (not to mention that they can’t fly military airplanes anymore either).
Click to expand...
I’m with ya on this one. I’ve done a lot of dumb stuff while my body was metabolizing ethyl alcohol but never even came close to getting behind the wheel of a car.

I also started flying in the military in the early 90s when 12 hours bottle to throttle was more of a guideline than a rule. I can think of a few flights that the entire crew probably shouldn’t have been behind the wheel of a car. Benefits of a crew served weapon I guess.
 
Richman said:
The Commonwealth nations have developed a really ugly totalitarian streak, and it mostly flies under the radar unless you live or try to travel there.
Click to expand...
I think this is far more true of their thought-policing (specific to the UK, less so than the greater Commonwealth) than it is of keeping those accused of, in the Canadian term of art, 'serious criminality' from crossing their borders.

And yeah, I do think DUI is a serious crime.

I also recognize that it's a very American problem, too.
 
///AMG said:
Yes, this is true (and fair). I just wish i could infiltrate their minds before they made some dumb decision that would have cost almost nothing to not make
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My first experience as a juror was for a 2nd or 3rd DUI for some idiot with a lot of money. He had two attorneys in court with him. I kept thinking for the cost of fighting this most recent DUI he could have just had a full time limo with hookers and blow drive him around.
 
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