Boeing Lounge Boeing 737 LRD

SurferLucas said:
We only get BOF…I’d never even heard of POF till this thread/discussion.

I don’t see anything with regards to it on the 737. FCTM references the 767-400.
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Well, it’s unpressurized takeoff in the Vol1, forgive me. I got comfort plus on my commute home and I’m taking advantage of nice FAs and the fact I’m getting picked up!

Also, it reminds me way too much of he CR2 the more times I read it and that trauma just makes me wanna drink more!
 
Karnage said:
Well, it’s unpressurized takeoff in the Vol1, forgive me. I got comfort plus on my commute home and I’m taking advantage of nice FAs and the fact I’m getting picked up!

Also, it reminds me way too much of he CR2 the more times I read it and that trauma just makes me wanna drink more!
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Ah, the only reference I could find is taking off around volcanic ash 😂
 
SurferLucas said:
Ah, the only reference I could find is taking off around volcanic ash 😂
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I only saw it because it's right next to the BOF procedure in the VOL1. Didn't even think to look in the FCTM, but I only read that when I can't sleep.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Yet people screw it up.
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People screw things up because they rush. I've only done this procedure on the line out of BUR.

During upgrade training I painstakingly went through every line item of the supplemental checklist. Read it out loud, confirmed the switch and moved to the next item. When I got to the end of the checklist the instructor said "Dave that's exactly how we want you guys to do the checklist." My response was "You know that's the first time I've ever been able to finish the checklist." When the instructor asked why I told him that every time I had tried to do this. A captain, while hand flying close to terrain out of BUR shouted "REVERSE C!!" reached over and flipped the bleed panel switches into place.

At that moment. No one is looking for traffic. No one is monitoring the flight path AND on top of all that. No one is even running the checklist that is supposed to be run. Just think about how awful that is. What does it get you? Nothing. There is about 10 minutes to complete a 30 second checklist. And 30 seconds if you do it slowly and very deliberately.

Yes it is a time bucket item. How fast does a heavy 900ER climb out of BUR? Not very fast. Passing through about 12K if the FO was really confused about what was going on and still had not managed to get things under control I'd probably ask for a level off. Turn the autopilot on and go through the checklist. Line item, by line item. Painstakingly.

There is absolutely no need for what I saw as an FO on the line. And it absolutely will either cause a mistake or even worse a mistake and a shut down FO due to piss poor CRM who doesn't double check the bleed panel for a mistake.
 
BEEF SUPREME said:
People screw things up because they rush. I've only done this procedure on the line out of BUR.

During upgrade training I painstakingly went through every line item of the supplemental checklist. Read it out loud, confirmed the switch and moved to the next item. When I got to the end of the checklist the instructor said "Dave that's exactly how we want you guys to do the checklist." My response was "You know that's the first time I've ever been able to finish the checklist." When the instructor asked why I told him that every time I had tried to do this. A captain, while hand flying close to terrain out of BUR shouted "REVERSE C!!" reached over and flipped the bleed panel switches into place.

At that moment. No one is looking for traffic. No one is monitoring the flight path AND on top of all that. No one is even running the checklist that is supposed to be run. Just think about how awful that is. What does it get you? Nothing. There is about 10 minutes to complete a 30 second checklist. And 30 seconds if you do it slowly and very deliberately.

Yes it is a time bucket item. How fast does a heavy 900ER climb out of BUR? Not very fast. Passing through about 12K if the FO was really confused about what was going on and still had not managed to get things under control I'd probably ask for a level off. Turn the autopilot on and go through the checklist. Line item, by line item. Painstakingly.

There is absolutely no need for what I saw as an FO on the line. And it absolutely will either cause a mistake or even worse a mistake and a shut down FO due to piss poor CRM who doesn't double check the bleed panel for a mistake.
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I agree to take your time and not rush it. That said, I’ve had twice where the FO was deliberately reading the checklist, announced it done, but a step was forgotten (eg, left x-bleed closed) after takeoff when fixing to normal.


Those errors would be caught by watching the duct gauge as you do the procedure.
Got good comments from checkairman in CQ for physically pointing to duct gauge. Bleeds off takeoff, right side duct should be zero and left side duct should be up because the APU is carrying it. After takeoff, right bleed on, right duct needle should swing. APU bleed off, left duct should come down, then left bleed on, and left needle should swing up. Crossbleed to auto, APU off. Done.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
I agree to take your time and not rush it. That said, I’ve had twice where the FO was deliberately reading the checklist, announced it done, but a step was forgotten (eg, left x-bleed closed) after takeoff when fixing to normal.


Those errors would be caught by watching the duct gauge as you do the procedure.
Got good comments from checkairman in CQ for physically pointing to duct gauge. Bleeds off takeoff, right side duct should be zero and left side duct should be up because the APU is carrying it. After takeoff, right bleed on, right duct needle should swing. APU bleed off, left duct should come down, then left bleed on, and left needle should swing up. Crossbleed to auto, APU off. Done.
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You can't do that while hand flying, in the right turn off 15 at BUR, with rising terrain and lots of GA aircraft around though.
 
Roger Roger said:
More importantly, why would you? Our job is to mitigate risk and part of that is prioritizing tasks and managing workload, not showing off how you’re the ace of the base when it comes to the bleed panel.
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The longer I sit in this seat I become increasingly concerned as to the behavior I saw whilst in the other seat. There was no reason for any of it. None. Asking ATC for a level off at 15K for a "little issue we are having" and taking the time to set a good example of transferring the controls, following the checklist and as @Cherokee_Cruiser said verifying that each valve is doing the correct thing with the attached pressure gauge is the correct thing to do.

I can't imagine ever having to do that. 99.9% of the FOs I have flown with have absolutely been better than I. Mostly, I just need to get out of the way and let everyone do their thing. I have found that the real crux of this job is the razors edge between being a micromanager and mentor.
 
SurferLucas said:
We only get BOF…I’d never even heard of POF till this thread/discussion.

I don’t see anything with regards to it on the 737. FCTM references the 767-400.
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POF is the WDR remark for the 767 owing to the presence of the air demand (driven? whatever, the pneumatically powered hydraulic demand!) pump on the center pneumatic system on the 767; the engine bleed switches stay on for takeoff, and the pack selectors are simply selected off as no air to the ADP would be "bad" when it comes time to move flaps or gear. Since your airplane requires selecting the engine bleed switches to off, evidently, and not merely the pack switches, the difference makes sense.

(A different remark, "APU," is used for God's jet for an APU-to-pack takeoff. Which I should probably go read Volume 1, Supplemental for again since it's getting to be that time of year.)
 
Autothrust Blue said:
POF is the WDR remark for the 767 owing to the presence of the air demand (driven? whatever, the pneumatically powered hydraulic demand!) pump on the center pneumatic system on the 767; the engine bleed switches stay on for takeoff, and the pack selectors are simply selected off as no air to the ADP would be "bad" when it comes time to move flaps or gear. Since your airplane requires selecting the engine bleed switches to off, evidently, and not merely the pack switches, the difference makes sense.

(A different remark, "APU," is used for God's jet for an APU-to-pack takeoff. Which I should probably go read Volume 1, Supplemental for again since it's getting to be that time of year.)
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💯 💯 💯
 
BEEF SUPREME said:
💯 💯 💯
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1746043665392.jpeg

"Oh, so THAT's how that is done on THAT airplane"
 
Minuteman said:
Question: I can intuit what “756” is, but what is “7ER”?
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In the before-time, in the long-long ago, the international category was separate from the domestic one. Various "things" happened, and that is no longer the case; 7ER is the surviving 757 and 767-300ER domestic and international category.

At Widget, the 767-400ER is equipment type "764" but the pilot category is "765" for reasons too. Do not resist. It's separated for flight instrument reasons and also because that airplane's mission is almost strictly transoceanic, which is no longer true of 7ER.
 
Speaking of LRD, it’s almost kismet Widjat doesn’t have any MAXes. Shoppes that know how to make nice, orderly lists still make a hash of that terrible naming scheme Boeing created.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
At Widget, the 767-400ER is equipment type "764" but the pilot category is "765" for reasons too. Do not resist. It's separated for flight instrument reasons and also because that airplane's mission is almost strictly transoceanic, which is no longer true of 7ER.
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Don’t forget, we ordered the 767-400’s with zero ETOPS equipment. It was for LGA/MCO/etc. Boeing offered us 777’s at cheaper rates to not build the -400, but we wanted it and it had to fit into LGA.

Only after did we decide “oh we should put them to better use” and added ETOPS, at great expense
 
Minuteman said:
Speaking of LRD, it’s almost kismet Widjat doesn’t have any MAXes. Shoppes that know how to make nice, orderly lists still make a hash of that terrible naming scheme Boeing created.
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Boeing is pulling out all the stops to get more than just the MAX10 on property here.
 
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