Are pilots flowing in aviate on the advertised timelines

So what you’re saying, is expect to be launching out of and recovering to KGYR in your Varney callsign bird, and spending much time in the Stanfield stack, for quite some time……along with the rest of the myriad of flightschool callsigns jamming up the area around here. 😂

Man the Stanfield Stack brings back some scary memories.
 
Hasn’t changed! Haha. I’m there a couple times a week. Now, with a gazillion flight schools at the metro PHX airports, it’s actually worse.

People wonder how I instructed in the DC FRZ and put up with all the procedures, etc. I'll take it over flying in the south PHX practice area any day.
 
People wonder how I instructed in the DC FRZ and put up with all the procedures, etc. I'll take it over flying in the south PHX practice area any day.

I’m shocked there hasn’t been any midairs out here, from just south of south mountain, down to Marana, including Coolidge.

The best I overheard the other evening there in the stack:

Approaching the Stanfield stack during a checkride I was giving. Idiot training school helicopter from Chandler checks in and gets an altitude for the stack, he’s ahead of me, which is fine, but as he’s approaching, he apparently sees one of the airplanes below him in the stack and makes the following radio call “hey guys, are we flying the published holding pattern backwards now?” The airplane he’s referring to, answers “no, we are on a parallel entry for the hold”. To which the helo replies “oh, uh, ok”. And to which I key up and reply, because i simply couldn’t resist “just make a 180 and head back to ground school, son”. 😆
 
The best too, in the stack. “Hey, is anyone at XXXX altitude? Can’t remember if it was open….”

😆
 
IMO I’d work on why the two interviews didn’t go well, and then work on that for the next interview. These flows are a gimmick that work when the industry is desperate for hiring, like it was in 2022/23. Once the tide turns, there is zero guarantee of anything. Say you start at an Aviate regional now. What’s to stop them increasing that 1600 TPIC to 2,000? 2500? 3000+?


These programs were created to staff the wholly owned regionals, first and foremost. Moving them to the mainline was an afterthought. Now that hiring slowed, they have no reason to move people up to mainline.


It’s all supply and demand, and it’s not 2022/23 anymore.

Ugh...I mean it's actually impressive how you speak with such confidence on a topic you know nothing about with completely false information. I'd actually mute you, but I feel like someone has to counter your terrible information.

Flows aren't completely one sided, but they're also not 50/50. They definitely do favor the company more than the potential employee, but telling people they're gimmicks...is impressively thick. Two years ago when hiring was out of control it was hard for me to recommend Aviate to anyone. It was easier and quicker to get hired at United as a traditional interview, then doing the program. Now, things have slowed down drastically. I'm not going to give exact numbers, but last time I did interviews there were almost no traditional interviews, and only Aviate and UMPP. If United is the goal, I highly recommend looking at the program. If you leave the program to go elsewhere, you're only ineligible to be hired for one year. If you're making that move anyway, you're not expecting to be in a United flight deck in a year regardless.

Yes United can keep changing the goal posts, that's a negative to a flow program, and why they favor the company more than the potential employee. However, you need to put up with that if this is where you want to be. You're better putting up with the headaches of the program and then potentially leaving, vs. not getting here.

These programs are also not there to staff regionals. They are an extended low risk job interview for the airline. They allow an airline to create multiple gates and make sure that the employee can meet all of those requirements before really giving them the job.

To the OP: I highly recommend Raven interview prep between the two. James does a really good job over there, and I've used him for all my interviews.
 
Ugh...I mean it's actually impressive how you speak with such confidence on a topic you know nothing about with completely false information. I'd actually mute you, but I feel like someone has to counter your terrible information.

Flows aren't completely one sided, but they're also not 50/50. They definitely do favor the company more than the potential employee, but telling people they're gimmicks...is impressively thick. Two years ago when hiring was out of control it was hard for me to recommend Aviate to anyone. It was easier and quicker to get hired at United as a traditional interview, then doing the program. Now, things have slowed down drastically. I'm not going to give exact numbers, but last time I did interviews there were almost no traditional interviews, and only Aviate and UMPP. If United is the goal, I highly recommend looking at the program. If you leave the program to go elsewhere, you're only ineligible to be hired for one year. If you're making that move anyway, you're not expecting to be in a United flight deck in a year regardless.

Yes United can keep changing the goal posts, that's a negative to a flow program, and why they favor the company more than the potential employee. However, you need to put up with that if this is where you want to be. You're better putting up with the headaches of the program and then potentially leaving, vs. not getting here.

These programs are also not there to staff regionals. They are an extended low risk job interview for the airline. They allow an airline to create multiple gates and make sure that the employee can meet all of those requirements before really giving them the job.

To the OP: I highly recommend Raven interview prep between the two. James does a really good job over there, and I've used him for all my interviews.

You’re certainly entitled to your *opinion* which is exactly what your post is.




“These programs are also not there to staff regionals. They are an extended low risk job interview for the airline. They allow an airline to create multiple gates and make sure that the employee can meet all of those requirements before really giving them the job.”



That’s definitely an opinion, and an incorrect one at that.
 
These programs are also not there to staff regionals. They are an extended low risk job interview for the airline. They allow an airline to create multiple gates and make sure that the employee can meet all of those requirements before really giving them the job.
This is exactly how the D225 program has been described to me by those involved. And all our new hires will be coming from it in 2025.
 
You’re certainly entitled to your *opinion* which is exactly what your post is.




“These programs are also not there to staff regionals. They are an extended low risk job interview for the airline. They allow an airline to create multiple gates and make sure that the employee can meet all of those requirements before really giving them the job.”



That’s definitely an opinion, and an incorrect one at that.

*Lowers glasses, checks own resume*

Please share the insider knowledge you have on Aviate, to back up your claims. I'd love to see it.
 
My bad. I thought you were a 744 ACMI to United. Oh wait. Did you mean you’re on the UAL hiring team and commenting on Aviate? So you wouldn’t have a bias at all.

I apologize.

A flow will, eventually, guarantee a spot at said major carrier when their number comes up. Who knows when. Is that worth leaving a non-flow airline wheres he’s about to become CA and get TPIC? I’ve never been a fan of lateral moves unless it really really makes sense.
 
My bad. I thought you were a 744 ACMI to United. Oh wait. Did you mean you’re on the UAL hiring team and commenting on Aviate? So you wouldn’t have a bias at all.

I apologize.

I can also show you my ALPA resume too, just to show you I’m not a company cheerleader. Just figured I could add some truth to the thread instead of passing made up feelings across as facts.
 
Hasn’t changed! Haha. I’m there a couple times a week. Now, with a gazillion flight schools at the metro PHX airports, it’s actually worse.
That was me in ‘07. Top of stack was like 10,500 some days. Casa Grande was a popular little uncontrolled ILS back then!
 
I've had an interview with netjets, an ULLC and did a meet and greet with another major that I never got to the second part of the interview due to them cancelling because of the lack of deliveries from Boeing. I'm going to get interview prep with cage marshall and raven and go from there. It would have been nice to have a flow in my back pocket but it sounds like it's better to hunt your own lunch.
As someone who job hopped a lot and set myself back, just stay where you’re at and keep moving up the ladder. Giving up seniority to chase a guaranteed interview program will be difficult and may not yield the results you want, given how United has changed the program since inception.

With that said, you have a United captain who is on the hiring team telling you to look into it, so I could be way off base.
 
Last edited:
As someone who job hopped a lot and set myself back, just stay where you’re at and keep moving up the ladder. Giving up seniority to chase a guaranteed interview program will be difficult and may not yield the results you want, given how United has changed the program since inception.

With that said, you have a United captain who is on the hiring team telling you to look into it, so I could be way off base.

I re-read the OPs post and I have to agree. Usually hopping is not the right choice. You could have a great and fantastic career staying where you are even if it’s not with United and that’s perfectly ok.

The point I’m trying to make is right now, in this current hiring environment, it’s very very difficult to get into United as a traditional applicant. Intel I’m hearing out of NGPA (not coming from United but applicants there) is competitive mins are around 7000tt with thousands of hours of 121 PIC.

The bottom line is this, if United is the goal, you have to take a good hard look at Aviate. Program flaws and all.
 
I re-read the OPs post and I have to agree. Usually hopping is not the right choice. You could have a great and fantastic career staying where you are even if it’s not with United and that’s perfectly ok.

The point I’m trying to make is right now, in this current hiring environment, it’s very very difficult to get into United as a traditional applicant. Intel I’m hearing out of NGPA (not coming from United but applicants there) is competitive mins are around 7000tt with thousands of hours of 121 PIC.

The bottom line is this, if United is the goal, you have to take a good hard look at Aviate. Program flaws and all.
Crazy how quickly it changes. Short time ago FOs with no TPIC were being scooped up.
 
As someone who job hopped a lot and set myself back, just stay where you’re at and keep moving up the ladder. Giving up seniority to chase a guaranteed interview program will be difficult and may not yield the results you want, given how United has changed the program since inception.

With that said, you have a United captain who is on the hiring team telling you to look into it, so I could be way off base.


That’s one way to go, keeping in mind, he’s gonna be a cheerleader for the program being that he’s the insider.


And as bad as APC is, there are still people sharing first hand accounts.





This post is for anyone thinking about joining Aviate in hopes that it will better there chances at United. First of all there is NO SENIORITY LIST , that means once you reach your requirements they will pick you if they decide. There are people who joined Aviate before others and have not been called.

United also has contract obligations with the regional carriers so they will NOT take all of there Aviate participants as much as you would think. Instead they are hiring pilots with 2 years of experience mainly from Envoy,Piedmont and PSA.”



And




I was a super early Aviate participant. Worst career mistake of my life since my goal (at the time) was UA. They treated us like garbage, I made less money than all of my peers, sat 6 day blocks of airport reserve, wasn’t allowed to call in sick more than 3 times a year under threat of program termination, and then UA told us retroactively that we had to get even more PIC time before we’d qualify for the transition to United. They also decided that my time sitting during covid related training delays didn’t count toward the program. That was when they changed the slogan from “the fastest way to UA” to “the most secure way to UA.”

A buddy of mine went to Republic the same day I went to UAX. Guess who is at UA while my Aviate friends still rot at places like Commuteair or gave up on it entirely. I wouldn’t go to UA even if the CJO came with a Lambo after my experience working under them.”
 
Crazy how quickly it changes. Short time ago FOs with no TPIC were being scooped up.

It could easily swing back the other way too. If Boeing and Airbus get their act together and deliver airplanes, it will drive times back down again. Maybe to not a “couple month in a RJ before coming over” levels but something more reasonable.

If that happens, Aviate might not be the best deal to get into a United Flight Deck but as of right now, it is.
 
Back
Top