Stolen ATP Cessna 172 Crash

There are plenty of sad stories, we all sympathize with those that have been dealt a bad hand. Most of us agree that the government could do a better job taking care of the most compromised among us.

But your post isn’t talking about those folks, your post is describing folks that must continuing working in their golden years - able-bodied folks that didn’t plan for their retirement. Working hard isn’t enough.

For relatively healthy folks, few countries provide better opportunities for a pleasant retirement than the United States. If you are triggered and ready to compare us to the social welfare states of Europe, I’ll ask you to take a deep breath.

If you don’t take advantage of the market and don’t plan for your retirement, those social welfare utopias seem pretty attractive.

If you are approaching 62 years of age, having maxed out your Roth for about 40 years and retiring without a mortgage, you are probably going to do better than folks facing retirement in Scandinavian countries. Add 401k’s and real estate investing opportunities and you’ll see that most of us do better trusting the market with good planning versus government and corporations.

Gordon Gekko wasn’t completely wrong.
You DO understand that before 1974, employees had the option of a corporate CASH contribution OR a corporate pension contribution, right?

The 401k was -bigly lobbied for by bigly paid bank lobbyists- created by financial "institutions" for the benefit of financial "institutions". Despite what your financial "adivsor" might have told you, those banks didn't ruin a perfectly good thing and make it worse by creating the 401k out of the goodness of their hearts. Those financial "institutions" didn't -and don't- care about people, except as sources of more income for the financial "institutions".

401k's created lots and lots of fees from lots and lots of individuals - mostly not very well-informed individuals, most of whom had no idea that those fees even existed. Those fees created billions of dollars of revenues for financial "institutions". And, what's an individual to do, go toe-to-toe with a bank in a court of law? Nope. Individuals hang alone; for all their rugged individuality, they are inherently weak and ineffectual against well-organized, well-funded adversaries. (If you airline scrows didn't have your airline unions -that many of you still pychologically insist on despising, despise despite all the benefits you derive- you might understand what I'm talking about here.)

Pensions made few, if any, fees for financial "institutions". Pensions were administered by professional money managers who knew better than to get screwed by other financial "professionals" (read: bank marketing VPs). Pensions represented Billions of dollars. They had market power because they aggregated otherwise powerless small personal amounts of money into huge FUNDS of money managed by actual, trained, professional money managers.

Did you miss the central message of "Wall Street" regarding that movie's antagonist (Gekko [lizard])?? Gordon "purchased" his corporate acquisition targets by using those target companies' own pension funds to fund his purchase of those companies. Then he, like all finance filth, manliness consultants ever since, gave us little people the same BS message we've gotten ever since: "Oh, see, now YOU have CHOICE! Choice, "as an individual", "to use your individuality", and to use your AR to go up against a trillion dollar finance machine?!? Really?? If you think that is true, you have been taken in not by a con-man, but by a con-industry.

If you don't believe me, ask yourself one question: When was the last time financial "institutions" did anything altruistically for the benefit of the poor scrows like you and me?

But, the plan worked! People now think that pensions were "just fixed income" (as opposed to say, an annuity???) People now think that the completely unecessary and aggregious fees charged by 401k "providers" are just a natural, required state of nature... kind of like gravity. Without those parasite fees, we'd ALL be much richer, and a few Billionaires would still be Billionaires with a few fewer billions.

Hint: they are NOT. 401k fees were a creation of banks seeking more money from uninformed chumps like us. All the while buttering us up and making us feel like MANLY, RUGGED, INDIVIDUALS by telling just how smart, and independent, and lucky we are to have our 'Murican choices! Choices unavailable to those other poor scrows who live in places like Canada and the more enlightened European nations who always have ENOUGH! And that's PLENTY!

Jeebus! Looks like we're so far down this psy-ops marketing mis-info road that the current generation once again has NO IDEA how screwed they are... 'cause their parents were also screwed, didn't get it, and never taught their kids. That, and, "Lighten up, Francis, I've got a football game to watch".

You might be smart. But how many people walk into Vegas actually understanding stats and odds and actually knowing just what the hell they are walking into? Doesn't matter... almost ALL those chumps FEEL REAL GOOD!! Go, 'Murica!!! Lots of care and love for each other!!! ♥️
 
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You DO understand that before 1974, employees had the option of a corporate CASH contribution OR a corporate pension contribution, right?

The 401k was -bigly lobbied for by bigly paid bank lobbyists- created by financial "institutions" for the benefit of financial "institutions". Despite what your financial "adivsor" might have told you, those banks didn't ruin a perfectly good thing and make it worse by creating the 401k out of the goodness of their hearts. Those financial "institutions" didn't -and don't- care about people, except as sources of more income for the financial "institutions".

401k's created lots and lots of fees from lots and lots of individuals - mostly not very well-informed individuals, most of whom had no idea that those fees even existed. Those fees created billions of dollars of revenues for financial "institutions". And, what's an individual to do, go toe-to-toe with a bank in a court of law? Nope. Individuals hang alone; for all their rugged individuality, they are inherently weak and ineffectual against well-organized, well-funded adversaries. (If you airline scrows didn't have your airline unions -that many of you still pychologically insist on despising, despise despite all the benefits you derive- you might understand what I'm talking about here.)

Pensions made few, if any, fees for financial "institutions". Pensions were administered by professional money managers who knew better than to get screwed by other financial "professionals" (read: bank marketing VPs). Pensions represented Billions of dollars. They had market power because they aggregated otherwise powerless small personal amounts of money into huge FUNDS of money managed by actual, trained, professional money managers.

Did you miss the central message of "Wall Street" regarding that movie's antagonist (Gekko [lizard])?? Gordon "purchased" his corporate acquisition targets by using those target companies' own pension funds to fund his purchase of those companies. Then he, like all finance filth, manliness consultants ever since, gave us little people the same BS message we've gotten ever since: "Oh, see, now YOU have CHOICE! Choice, "as an individual", "to use your individuality", and to use your AR to go up against a trillion dollar finance machine?!? Really?? If you think that is true, you have been taken in not by a con-man, but by a con-industry.

If you don't believe me, ask yourself one question: When was the last time financial "institutions" did anything altruistically for the benefit of the poor scrows like you and me?

But, the plan worked! People now think that pensions were "just fixed income" (as opposed to say, an annuity???) People now think that the completely unecessary and aggregious fees charged by 401k "providers" are just a natural, required state of nature... kind of like gravity. Without those parasite fees, we'd ALL be much richer, and a few Billionaires would still be Billionaires with a few fewer billions.

Hint: they are NOT. 401k fees were a creation of banks seeking more money from uninformed chumps like us. All the while buttering us up and making us feel like MANLY, RUGGED, INDIVIDUALS by telling just how smart, and independent, and lucky we are to have our 'Murican choices! Choices unavailable to those other poor scrows who live in places like Canada and the more enlightened European nations who always have ENOUGH! And that's PLENTY!

Jeebus! Looks like we're so far down this psy-ops marketing mis-info road that the current generation once again has NO IDEA how screwed they are... 'cause their parents were also screwed, didn't get it, and never taught their kids. That, and, "Lighten up, Francis, I've got a football game to watch".
Okay, now write a god damn book about Roth IRA’s, the focus of my example.
 
Okay, now write a god damn book about Roth IRA’s, the focus of my example.

The Roth IRA is just a subset of the same manipulation of the banking oversight of "our" government. And, as long as the bank's industrial media can continue to control what most people consider "news", and continue to defund not just public education but the very idea of the PUBLIC, the public will continue to think they are getting a great deal and personal choice!...

So, 'ell yeah. Go buy some ROTH IRA. I say BUY, because that is precisely what you do when you "invest" in one.

"Souvenirs! Novelties! Roth IRAs!" "What phony dog poop?"
 
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The Roth IRA is just a subset of the same manipulation of the banking oversight of "our" government. And, as long as the bank's industrial media can continue to control what most people consider "news", and continue to defund not just public education but the very idea of the PUBLIC, the public will continue to think they are getting a great deal and personal choice!...

So, 'ell yeah. Go buy some ROTH IRA. I say BUY, because that is precisely what you do when you "invest" in one.

"Trinkets! Novelties! Roth IRAs!"

I guess you are not aware of self-directed IRA’s. Tell us more about investments.

With regards to investments, who shouldn’t max out their Roth every year? Tell us more.
 
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I guess you are not aware of self-directed IRA’s. Tell us more about investments.
Like I said, boyo, if you like yer "freedom" and "independence" come with me back to before 1974 and take yer cash! If you really think "yer all that", you can do whatever you want with it!

Most "regulations" are designed to give certain players or industry segments (the ones with lobby-dollars) structural advantages over competition, not to serve or benefit us scrows.

"The Taxpayer Relief Act" ???

Really???

Did you like "The Patriot Act" as an advancement of individual freedoms (and of the 4th and 14th amendments) too???

Stop believing the Marketing Titles! Start reading and believing the actual words of the actual texts... all the hundreds of pages of those texts! The devil is always in the details.
 
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Like I said, boyo, if you like yer "freedom" and "independence" come with me back to before 1974 and take yer cash! If you really think "yer all that", you can do whatever you want with it!

Most "regulations" are designed to give certain players or industry segments structural advantages over competition, not to serve or benefit us scrows. "The Taxpayer Relief Act" ???

Really??? Did you like "The Patriot Act" as an advancement of individual freedoms, too???

Let’s stick to one subject for the moment.

Please describe why an investor wouldn’t want to max out his Roth every year, if allowed.

I’m betting that the “hard working” folks working until they die never hit MAGI limits.
 
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Let’s stick to one subject for the moment.

Please describe why an investor wouldn’t want to max out his Roth every year.
Sure... yeah! Go ahead and do that. Just please understand that there was a time in this land - NOT TOO LONG AGO - in which YOU could have done much, much better.

Maybe that doesn't matter to you.

After all, no company actually needs to be GOOD or even competent. It just needs to be slightly better -by some, ineffable metric- than any other "competitive" alternative.

AND!!!...

Customer satisfaction is a simple subtraction equation...

Customer Expectation
- Reality
Customer Satisfaction

So, you know, nothing in 'Murica has to be optimized, or good, or even just decent. Stuff in 'Murica needs only to make it's seller some money!
 
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Sure... yeah! Go ahead and do that. Just please understand that there was a time in this land - NOT TOO LONG AGO - in which YOU could have done much, much better.

Maybe that doesn't matter to you.

After all, no company actually needs to be GOOD or even competent. It just needs to be slightly better -by some, ineffable metric- than any other "competitive" alternative.

AND!!!...

Customer satisfaction is a simple subtraction equation...

Customer Expectation
- Reality
Customer Satisfaction

So, you know, nothing in 'Murica has to be optimized, or good, or even just decent. Stuff in 'Murica needs only to make it's seller some money!

Let’s circle back to your post about folks working until they die. You appear to have gotten distracted and forgotten that I’m responding to a specific post, yours.

You seem to think this scenario is a failing of the government or corporations as opposed to a result of horrible life choices and poor retirement planning.

I simply described how folks that now must work until they die could have avoided that fate. Home ownership and consistent investment in a Roth since 1998 (among other things) could have prevented the fate you describe.

Describing other paths to prosperity, previously available, doesn’t negate my point.

I chose Roth as most 401k plans are employer-based and I was making the point that folks don’t need the government or a corporation to avoid working until dying - the point of your post.

Given your thoughts on the banking industry, I would have expected you to be an expert on self-directed IRA’s.

For those that qualify, income under MAGI, who wouldn’t benefit from a Roth IRA? This is not a rhetorical question.
 
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You realize when my (actual)boomer parents bought a home in 1980 the interest rate was 14%? And you actually had to like qualify for it. Show up to a bank in business clothes and make your case as to why the bank should loan you money.

You want to buy a house? You want to retire? I can show you how to do it. But you aren't going to like it. Because it isn't easy. Or what society calls normal. But it is 100% possible to do both right now.


Worry about the things you can change. Stop fretting over stuff you have ZERO control over.


I'm perplexed. Do people not know what a loan is before they get one? Honestly, this is a societal problem. A huge one, and it's the reason we allow our government to continue to rape us in taxes. For what? This?



It baffles me when those that have third degree burns complain about them when they willingly stuck their hand in the fire.
This is high quality Boomer level talk back. Like the guy around the corner who bagged groceries for a year, saved up for the down payment and bought his house.

Thanks for the disconnected lesson gramps, can you tell us more about how the taxes are raping the wealthy too?
 
So, do you support high rates of taxation or do you just want to stick it to the rich, or both?

I don’t support it, seeing how our tax money is wasted into so much dumb stuff.

And “the rich” definition keeps changing. When Biden ran, the things he was pushing for was for those making less than 400k.

CA just did away with the SDI wage cap, so you don’t even have to live here, as long as you’re based in a CA base, and commute here, you still pay the SDA tax. Historically max cap of around $1,200 annually, with no wage cap and an increased percentage withholding, you will now pay 1.1% of your entire salary to SDI. The Social security wage cap seems to be increasing by ~8k per year, so every year you pay about $500-600 more of your money into SS, year over year.


Who are the rich, exactly? For Democrats, it seems anyone making over 250k is rich.
 
The Roth IRA is just a subset of the same manipulation of the banking oversight of "our" government. And, as long as the bank's industrial media can continue to control what most people consider "news", and continue to defund not just public education but the very idea of the PUBLIC, the public will continue to think they are getting a great deal and personal choice!...

So, 'ell yeah. Go buy some ROTH IRA. I say BUY, because that is precisely what you do when you "invest" in one.

"Souvenirs! Novelties! Roth IRAs!" "What phony dog poop?"
Liked for the Top Secret quote.
 
I don’t support it, seeing how our tax money is wasted into so much dumb stuff.

And “the rich” definition keeps changing. When Biden ran, the things he was pushing for was for those making less than 400k.

CA just did away with the SDI wage cap, so you don’t even have to live here, as long as you’re based in a CA base, and commute here, you still pay the SDA tax. Historically max cap of around $1,200 annually, with no wage cap and an increased percentage withholding, you will now pay 1.1% of your entire salary to SDI. The Social security wage cap seems to be increasing by ~8k per year, so every year you pay about $500-600 more of your money into SS, year over year.


Who are the rich, exactly? For Democrats, it seems anyone making over 250k is rich.

$250K puts you solidly in the top decile.

 
“Where?”

Not where you live, but you and I are also privileged in that we can live wherever we want (I work remote). In many of my client airport communities, I’d live like a fat king. If I ever left my high income suburban community and drove an hour in literally any direction, I’d absolutely feel wealthy. That’s not to mention how wealthy I am when I’m traveling through Latin America.
 
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