Drunk and asleep on the job, ATC pushed to limit

I'm spending the night at a distillery on the airport at KIGM. Maybe you could be ATC, ARFF, and do distillery tours on the side.
 
greg1016 said:
And yes, people are quitting and retiring earlier than planned due to working conditions and lack of sustainable raises,
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I am one of them, I’m out the day I turn 50. Our facility is fat and haven’t worked OT since I left the center. I’m just tired of being tired from our schedule. I try to mitigate it by swapping out of quick turns into a mid-day shift and that helps.
 
DE727UPS said:
I'm spending the night at a distillery on the airport at KIGM. Maybe you could be ATC, ARFF, and do distillery tours on the side.
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Beautiful IGM! Can hit the Dambar steakhouse there in town. Have spent many a nights there in my time. The airport restaurant is cool too.
 
Ozelot said:
I am one of them, I’m out the day I turn 50. Our facility is fat and haven’t worked OT since I left the center. I’m just tired of being tired from our schedule. I try to mitigate it by swapping out of quick turns into a mid-day shift and that helps.
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It has always been my plan to retire as soon as I am eligible, but it may mean having to get another retirement job. That wasn't always part of the plan.
 
greg1016 said:
It has always been my plan to retire as soon as I am eligible, but it may mean having to get another retirement job. That wasn't always part of the plan.
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Oh, I can’t afford to retire! I have 5 kids. But I am and will make it work. My wife is a RN and both my annuity and her income should make it manageable.
 
I have no idea why so many facilities insist on working the rattler, or the people who get angry at thr FAA over it when it’s decided on the local level. I’ve never worked a rattler schedule in my life. I def get being angry at my coworkers who want to work it and I’d be stuck with it.
 
NovemberEcho said:
I have no idea why so many facilities insist on working the rattler, or the people who get angry at thr FAA over it when it’s decided on the local level. I’ve never worked a rattler schedule in my life. I def get being angry at my coworkers who want to work it and I’d be stuck with it.
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They voted it down for the leave year coming out of the pandemic at my last NY facility. A year later they brought it back (see my previous post about kids). The thing is, if there is will for it, even a small facility can usually work out a mix of both. AGC had 2 lines for each pair of days off. One was a rattler and the other was a week of the same schedule, rotating. Eventually the rattler lines were going first over typically better days off and they went to 100% 2-2-1.

For me, I have an easier time managing my sleep on a rattler than I do when I have a week of nights and then only have two days to adjust to a week of days. When we were 5 on 5 off during the pandemic it was great, but I had 5 days to adjust myself to the next schedule. I realize this is not the case for everyone, but there is no easy solution that fits everyone.

Could I get a 32 hour work week? #patco
 
CFI A&P said:
Just had dinner with an ATC friend the other day. They're not too far from retirement and looking forward to it, in fact they'd punch out now for reduced benefits if they could. Their facility has a high washout rate, mandatory overtime and the compensation isn't keeping up with cost of living for the area. There are a lot of ways to generate the same, if not better income without working nights, holidays or the scrutiny that comes with a federal position. They pointed out how some of their colleagues have quit for other professions that don't involve OKC or regular government shutdowns, or risk being featured on a story with Greg Feith and Tom Costello.

The juice just isn't worth the squeeze anymore.
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I think that's a lot of professions.

There are probably more young people that want to be TikTok influencers than there are that want to be engineers, scientists, doctors, etc because the path to entry is largely that one big video.
 
I will say the next major issue is coming in about 5-6 years, when a ton of the people who were hired to replace the Reagan era hires who were retiring in the mid 00's become eligible and all retire pretty much right away instead of staying for 56.

FAA's math and staffing projections are not based on everybody dipping out the second they hit 25 years of service or 50 years old. I think far fewer controllers are interested in staying until 56 with the never ending OT and • schedules. I can bounce out in my late 40's, and if things keep up like this I dont see why I would give them an extra 7-8 years of service when they treat the average Controller like garbage.
inigo88 said:
I got to take a tour of LA Center 5 years ago or so - it’s just a bunch of normal people doing a job with inadequate staffing and a lot of overtime. Some live in Palmdale/Lancaster and I think a lot of them commute from Santa Clarita. One of their controllers is a semi-regular contributor here. Sorry to ruin the mental image though. :)
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Thats us! I think we are probably one of the few workplaces in CA where a majority of the workforce is commuting into a lower cost of living area from a higher one. Thank you to whoever decided to put the Center in Palmdale.....thats totally helping us retain the poor trainees sent out to "Los Angeles" from the Academy.
 
greg1016 said:
Some of us actually prefer the rattler (me), because although I have to manage my sleep schedule, I know exactly what shift I will be on depending on the day of the week. The alternative, which some facilities do, is to work a week of nights, a week of days, and a week of midnights (you'd probably only get the week of midnights every 5th rotation depending on the staffing requirements). Other people like the rattler because they don't see their school-aged kids for weeks at a time when they are on the evening shift. Bidding a schedule where you only work one shift the entire year is a non-starter for the FAA because traffic volume and characteristics are varied by the shift you are on. And if you think retention and recruitment is a pain now, imagine telling someone that based on their seniority they'll be working the 3-11pm shift exclusively for the first 7 years of their career.

And yes, people are quitting and retiring earlier than planned due to working conditions and lack of sustainable raises, exacerbating the situation. If I were earlier on in my career at this time, I'd be seriously considering it. If I had washed out of training 10 years ago I would have become an airline pilot and while I would have struggled along at first I would be significantly better off now than I am. I know this for a fact because I have a friend who quit 10 years ago and did just that and now he flies the 75/6 at southern jets. I am 8 years to retirement and I have way too much time and money invested into my pension to give it up now.
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Where I used to work we rotated days to nights and back every 13 weeks. My current job does not rotate, you can get to days when there is a opening.
 
nabbyfan said:
Thats us! I think we are probably one of the few workplaces in CA where a majority of the workforce is commuting into a lower cost of living area from a higher one. Thank you to whoever decided to put the Center in Palmdale.....thats totally helping us retain the poor trainees sent out to "Los Angeles" from the Academy.
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I think we stopped in your area on that tour but you weren’t working that night.

Re: Palmdale, you mean to tell me the chance to live and work in the AV isn’t attracting the nation’s top candidates? :D


View: https://youtu.be/F5FRU6R8AGU?si=KOORPhG2k4OZ_ApO
 
nabbyfan said:
Thats us! I think we are probably one of the few workplaces in CA where a majority of the workforce is commuting into a lower cost of living area from a higher one. Thank you to whoever decided to put the Center in Palmdale.....thats totally helping us retain the poor trainees sent out to "Los Angeles" from the Academy.
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They need LA Center, East Sector, Needles, CA
 
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