Drunk and asleep on the job, ATC pushed to limit

nabbyfan said:
This used to be a job people would kill for. Now, trainees and even CPCs are straight quitting. You can make controller money in alot of different ways that don’t include the worlds worst schedule for your health, 6 days a week, and people are realizing that. Well, everybody besides the FAA is.
Click to expand...

Just had dinner with an ATC friend the other day. They're not too far from retirement and looking forward to it, in fact they'd punch out now for reduced benefits if they could. Their facility has a high washout rate, mandatory overtime and the compensation isn't keeping up with cost of living for the area. There are a lot of ways to generate the same, if not better income without working nights, holidays or the scrutiny that comes with a federal position. They pointed out how some of their colleagues have quit for other professions that don't involve OKC or regular government shutdowns, or risk being featured on a story with Greg Feith and Tom Costello.

The juice just isn't worth the squeeze anymore.
 
CFI A&P said:
There are a lot of ways to generate the same, if not better income without working nights, holidays or the scrutiny that comes with a federal position.

The juice just isn't worth the squeeze anymore.
Click to expand...
Your friend wants to smoke weed, or maybe they just want the freedom of having the option on a camping trip without completely destroying his entire lifes work sitting around a campfire. I've been dealing with that for over thirty years. I'm unsure if I'm better or worse but it seemed like a lot of my friends had a better time. Some are very successful and some are not around much anymore. For me I know my job can require a whiz quiz at anytime random or not, it's not hard to not fail a drug test. Don't do drugs. I knew going into aviation that I was giving up that freedom, I did it willingly and I'm still here so I assume it worked out. I always kind of thought of the Center people as hobbled hippies smoking cigarettes in the dark somewhere wishing they were anywhere else. I know I'm wrong, but that's my perception as someone born in 1971.
 
knot4u said:
Your friend wants to smoke weed, or maybe they just want the freedom of having the option on a camping trip without completely destroying his entire lifes work sitting around a campfire. I've been dealing with that for over thirty years. I'm unsure if I'm better or worse but it seemed like a lot of my friends had a better time. Some are very successful and some are not around much anymore. For me I know my job can require a whiz quiz at anytime random or not, it's not hard to not fail a drug test. Don't do drugs. I knew going into aviation that I was giving up that freedom, I did it willingly and I'm still here so I assume it worked out. I always kind of thought of the Center people as hobbled hippies smoking cigarettes in the dark somewhere wishing they were anywhere else. I know I'm wrong, but that's my perception as someone born in 1971.
Click to expand...
I got to take a tour of LA Center 5 years ago or so - it’s just a bunch of normal people doing a job with inadequate staffing and a lot of overtime. Some live in Palmdale/Lancaster and I think a lot of them commute from Santa Clarita. One of their controllers is a semi-regular contributor here. Sorry to ruin the mental image though. :)
 
knot4u said:
I always kind of thought of the Center people as hobbled hippies smoking cigarettes in the dark somewhere wishing they were anywhere else. I know I'm wrong, but that's my perception as someone born in 1971.
Click to expand...
Most people in Oakland Center look more like someone I'd play basketball with than anything else...
 
knot4u said:
Your friend wants to smoke weed, or maybe they just want the freedom of having the option on a camping trip without completely destroying his entire lifes work sitting around a campfire. I've been dealing with that for over thirty years. I'm unsure if I'm better or worse but it seemed like a lot of my friends had a better time. Some are very successful and some are not around much anymore. For me I know my job can require a whiz quiz at anytime random or not, it's not hard to not fail a drug test. Don't do drugs. I knew going into aviation that I was giving up that freedom, I did it willingly and I'm still here so I assume it worked out. I always kind of thought of the Center people as hobbled hippies smoking cigarettes in the dark somewhere wishing they were anywhere else. I know I'm wrong, but that's my perception as someone born in 1971.
Click to expand...

You're take away from this "There are a lot of ways to generate the same, if not better income without working nights, holidays or the scrutiny that comes with a federal position. The juice just isn't worth the squeeze anymore." was an assumption that they want to smoke weed? Couldn't be further from the truth. As I said in the post, there are a lot of jobs out there now that have better working hours, better working conditions, and less micromanaging than what they're currently doing. Even more, that there are a plethora of opportunities to make better income from photos of feet or selling stuff through Etsy.
 
CFI A&P said:
You're take away from this "There are a lot of ways to generate the same, if not better income without working nights, holidays or the scrutiny that comes with a federal position. The juice just isn't worth the squeeze anymore." was an assumption that they want to smoke weed? Couldn't be further from the truth. As I said in the post, there are a lot of jobs out there now that have better working hours, better working conditions, and less micromanaging than what they're currently doing. Even more, that there are a plethora of opportunities to make better income from photos of feet or selling stuff through Etsy.
Click to expand...
That's not what I said. My point was I chose this road and some of my peers went different directions, mine required peeing in a cup, some of the others were not given that restriction. Some have been very successful, others have not. I haven't messed around with any substance that might threaten my income. I don't gamble. I'm not saying that other peoples usage of anything is a benefit or a detriment. I chose a long time ago to not play that game.
 
Boris Badenov said:
Is that what we're calling it, these days?
Click to expand...
That was more based on personality and physical build (lots of fast-talking urban\ghetto dudes that tend to be athletic looking and like basketball) than racial LOL. I got 2 tours of ZOA 6 years apart and the place only got more full of people who seem down for pick-up basketball games haha. I think I got called "blood" at every area I got to spend some time at last time. Actually there are a ton of hot girls in their 20s and 30s too. Just about every one of them I saw had a ring on, though.

Fixtur said:
Who knew ZOA was staffed by Croatians?
Click to expand...
LOL are you thinking of Serbians? Not a whole lot of Croatians playing US basketball, even less so streetball which is what my white ass likes to do.
 
Last edited:
NovemberEcho said:
www.nytimes.com

Drunk and Asleep on the Job: Air Traffic Controllers Pushed to the Brink (Published 2023)

A nationwide shortage of controllers has resulted in an exhausted and demoralized work force that is increasingly prone to making dangerous mistakes.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
Click to expand...
'Twixt the sleepy-drunk controllers and the sleepy (at least) pilots overflying destinations while Otto drives, this should all cancel out and coalesce into automated excellence. Profit statement due next Wednesday... AI will only improve everything and speed up all this human excellence. After all, AI is based entirely upon what it knows about US!! I can't wait!! How about you??
 
We had a bball hoop at LA Tracon back in the 80's. Facility was in the big Coast Guard hanger and there was room for a half court outside the break room. I had a great spin move back in the day. Those guys were a lot of fun. They all smoked and that gave me the stamina advantage. Great times.
 
ChasenSFO said:
LOL are you thinking of Serbians? Not a whole lot of Croatians playing US basketball, even less so streetball which is what my white ass likes to do.
Click to expand...

Toni Kukoc was probably the most famous Croatian US basketball player.

inigo88 said:
I got to take a tour of LA Center 5 years ago or so - it’s just a bunch of normal people doing a job with inadequate staffing and a lot of overtime. Some live in Palmdale/Lancaster and I think a lot of them commute from Santa Clarita. One of their controllers is a semi-regular contributor here. Sorry to ruin the mental image though. :)
Click to expand...

When BLH TRACON opens up, they’ll be in one of the most affordable parts of CA. :)
 
Falcon262 said:
Why don't they work a set schedule? Why work days one day and nights the next day?
Click to expand...

The “rattler” or “ironman” schedule means you start on a swing shift 3-11 and end the week on a midnight. Since that means you’re home at 7ish am on your last day of work, it theoretically gives you another day off. Personally im so exhausted after a mid shift that any extra time off would be wasted sleeping anyway.
 
NovemberEcho said:
That’s because VRA stands for Veterans Readjustment Act and prior ATC had nothing to do with it in theory. Although I was hired on a VRA bid (I think you were too?) and seem to recall it being treated the same as a prior-experience bid and discussions on stuckmic about which quals counted and which didn’t.
Click to expand...
VRA was for military controllers, I was not eligible to apply on those bids. I was off the street. Had a coworker at AGC whose only experience was on a navy amphib. It's possible he lied on his app I guess. He no longer works for the FAA, and he sucked, but he did squeak through training at AGC.
 
greg1016 said:
VRA was for military controllers, I was not eligible to apply on those bids. I was off the street. Had a coworker at AGC whose only experience was on a navy amphib. It's possible he lied on his app I guess. He no longer works for the FAA, and he sucked, but he did squeak through training at AGC.
Click to expand...

He must have snuck through because you don’t get a CTO or pink card on a ship.
 
Falcon262 said:
Why don't they work a set schedule? Why work days one day and nights the next day?
Click to expand...
Some of us actually prefer the rattler (me), because although I have to manage my sleep schedule, I know exactly what shift I will be on depending on the day of the week. The alternative, which some facilities do, is to work a week of nights, a week of days, and a week of midnights (you'd probably only get the week of midnights every 5th rotation depending on the staffing requirements). Other people like the rattler because they don't see their school-aged kids for weeks at a time when they are on the evening shift. Bidding a schedule where you only work one shift the entire year is a non-starter for the FAA because traffic volume and characteristics are varied by the shift you are on. And if you think retention and recruitment is a pain now, imagine telling someone that based on their seniority they'll be working the 3-11pm shift exclusively for the first 7 years of their career.

And yes, people are quitting and retiring earlier than planned due to working conditions and lack of sustainable raises, exacerbating the situation. If I were earlier on in my career at this time, I'd be seriously considering it. If I had washed out of training 10 years ago I would have become an airline pilot and while I would have struggled along at first I would be significantly better off now than I am. I know this for a fact because I have a friend who quit 10 years ago and did just that and now he flies the 75/6 at southern jets. I am 8 years to retirement and I have way too much time and money invested into my pension to give it up now.
 
I always say washing out of the academy was the best thing that ever happened to me. The flip side is you can retire after 20 and go get a flying job. My buddy from SEA tower retired and does more flying than me now doing F/O corporate jet stuff. Could lead to the left seat in time if he wants.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top