Morbid curiosity. Upgrade times?

form810 said:
I think you got them in exactly the correct order - barring mergers, acquisitions, bankruptcies, and other unforseeable stuff.

You might swap SWA and "Untied", but that's right there in the union name, eh? SWAPA. (Who the heck would have faith in a union of the UNTIED?)

EDIT: Since your original post was from almost two years ago, the question at hand is: Well, what did you determine? Where you at? When did you upgrade?
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I didn’t take the first upgrade. Our ETOPS domiciles come with a 6 month lock (prohibiting you from bidding to a non-ETOPS base for 6 months). I didn’t want to be locked out there while someone junior to me potentially was awarded my desired domicile, so I ended up upgrading at 8.5 years. I commuted to PHX for about 6 months, and then DEN for one month before being awarded DAL where I currently live. Most junior upgrade at the company is around the 6.5 year point right now and its location seems to change monthly between Oakland, Denver, Chicago, and Vegas.
 
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Autothrust Blue said:
So ETOPS yes, WATRS no?
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They did it for a bit after the merger but then stopped. Back then I was working elsewhere and flying in WATRS we joked after hearing them on HF that their training must have been a pamphlet or something.

After experiencing their old class 2 navigation training later on those of us in class that had done got a good laugh out of it and it became clear why they quit going out there. The new ETOPS training is totally different and much improved from what I’ve been told, I’m not going to be doing anytime soon though.

Plus the majority of the 800s don’t have rafts or HF anyway, only the ETOPS ones do. Same with the non-ETOPS MAXes. So they are all limited to 162 miles offshore. The only 700s that could do it are the AirTran airplanes and some of the oddball leased ones as they still have their rafts and HF.
 
BobDDuck said:
Maybe it is now, but for the first few months of listening to them bumble their way across the Pacific, it did sound like there wasn't really much training going on.
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Don’t doubt it. They tried to keep the mentality of reinventing the wheel to a minimum but from what I hear it took a bit to get things ironed out. After four years of doing it things have, at least from what I’ve been told has gotten better.
 
arkflyr said:
Don’t doubt it. They tried to keep the mentality of reinventing the wheel to a minimum but from what I hear it took a bit to get things ironed out. After four years of doing it things have, at least from what I’ve been told has gotten better.
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Nah, they still sound like amateur hour on the radios, and think it’s time to set up bar meet ups on ‘fingers’.
 
ZapBrannigan said:
I didn’t take the first upgrade. Our ETOPS domiciles come with a 6 month lock (prohibiting you from bidding to a non-ETOPS base for 6 months). I didn’t want to be locked out there while someone junior to me potentially was awarded my desired domicile, so I ended up upgrading at 8.5 years. I commuted to PHX for about 6 months, and then DEN for one month before being awarded DAL where I currently live. Most junior upgrade at the company is around the 6.5 year point right now and its location seems to change monthly between Oakland, Denver, Chicago, and Vegas.
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Wait, what are you saying?? You waited 8.5 years to fly from ORD to MCI to DFW and back instead of signing up to fly from ORD to Paris or Tokyo, or Santiago??!!!??? Maybe I mistook your post, but if not... HUH??!!??

I have former students (some of whom should NEVER be allowed within 50 feet of an airplane) who are now Captains at majors. Some of them upgraded (at majors) in 6-8 months! (I never signed him off, but one of these 'tards failed his CFI ride 7 times, despite shopping FAA examiners, DPEs, and eventually FSDOs. Yeah, he's a "Captain" now.) I'm sooooo happy we now have the PRD... Lord, help us.

There is good reason I do a lot more long distance driving these days.
 
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form810 said:
Wait, what are you saying?? You waited 8.5 years to fly from ORD to MCI to DFW and back instead of signing up to fly from ORD to Paris or Tokyo, or Santiago??!!!??? Maybe I mistook your post, but if not... HUH??!!??

I have former students (some of whom should NEVER be allowed within 50 feet of an airplane) who are now Captains at majors. Some of them upgraded (at majors) in 6-8 months! (I never signed him off, but one of these 'tards failed his CFI ride 7 times, despite shopping FAA examiners, DPEs, and eventually FSDOs. Yeah, he's a "Captain" now.) I'm sooooo happy we now have the PRD... Lord, help us.

There is good reason I do a lot more long distance driving these days.
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His career started at a nice young age and would have been nice but 9/11, age 65, GFC, all made for terrible bumps in the road. He went to SWA when there really wasn’t much hiring at the big 3. Can’t blame him here. It’s just the way the cards got dealt.


And I fully believe you on the folks failing multiple times and still ending up at airlines. It is scary, and the last two big accidents had a PF with a checkered history (Atlas, Colgan).
 
i have to agree. We continue to tear down the guard rails. No simulator evaluations prior to hire. Lower and lower required experience. Airline managers just want warm bodies in the seat, and are putting all of their eggs in the aircraft automation basket - hoping the system will result in safety, rather than hiring well trained, educated, and experienced pilots with maturity and good judgement. It’s dollars and cents to them, and I continue to believe it is a mistake.

Pilot training in the United States isn’t equivalent to military training, and it’s not comparable to European training. Instead student pilots here are coddled, carried, prodded, and pushed through the program as long as their checks continue to clear. Nobody is washed out of flight training (like they would be in the military). And they lack the depth of knowledge required of the European apprenticeship program (to say nothing of the fact that CRM in the United States is not built to work in an apprenticeship model).

All we have is the benefit of time. Adding lessons learned to that pilot tool kit and taking them out when the circumstances require it. Not time drilling around the pattern in a 172 as some might claim. But time working as a CFI not only with primary students, but advanced students, multi engine students, instrument students. Maybe flying pipeline patrol or traffic watch, or cancelled checks, or lab samples In all kinds of weather, day or night, in questionably maintained machines.

I want to sit next to the pilot who has been scared a time or three. I want to sit next to a pilot who has had to make the tough decision to say NO to the boss when weather or aircraft maintenance status is in question. I want to sit next to a pilot who has wondered how to keep food on the table, but kept on flying nonetheless because they couldn’t imagine doing anything else! I want to sit next to the pilot who sought out training in traildraggers or airplanes with steam gauges because they want to understand how all the magic works and know that they have the knowledge and experience to fly the machine when the magic stops working. I want to sit next to a pilot who has WORKED for the position… and not been gifted their seat by virtue of a pilot shortage.

I started young. 22 for my first non CFI job. 23 at my first commuter. 26 at my first major. I KNOW what it is to take shortcuts and get there in a hurry. It took the NEXT 15 or so years to realize how important experience is, and how green I really was in my twenties.
 
Kingairer said:
All this headache for one extra day of training about HF radios and life rafts/survival….union doesn’t fight it much because it’s inefficient for headcount’s which is in our favor.
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I think I could afford to buy a car with all the trips they took off my schedule because I didn't get my LT qual the first 2 years in an I status. #blest.
 
Kingairer said:
I doubt it’s anything major, but of course I’m skeptical. Seems like a lot of money just to get access to YTZ airport.
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Skåning said:
What’s your guy’s take on this?

aviationa2z.com

American Airlines Now Has Interest in New US Connect Start-Up

Connect Airlines (MW), a new American regional carrier, has established a memorandum of understanding with a prominent U.S. airline for commercial collaboration.
aviationa2z.com aviationa2z.com
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AA retired the Dash 8’s at Piedmont to….buy a stake in a Dash 8 operator? Seems like something AA management would do…
 
Wasnt sure where to stick this, but maybe it’ll help someone:

1ADC5B9E-F05C-4764-B86C-907949B94E6A.jpeg
 
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