Flying into PHX area from the east

PGT

Well-Known Member
What's the best way to get to DVT/GYR from northern Texas? I was thinking to ABQ then V190 until the north side of the area, then file a waypoint on the west side to avoid flying right over PHX.

I'll be in a light single so planning around 11k should keep me safe from the terrain.

thanks for the help!
 
Several times going back to 1977, always via ABQ. KPHX was a good GA fuel stop then.

St Johns usually has good fuel prices and old cop cars to drive to town for lunch.

I fly at even altitudes however.
 
Last edited:
If you're in N731NR, don't worry about routing and just go direct.
4C147F58-CADD-4791-8932-E850E3AF381A.jpeg


1647437371871.jpeg
 
If you’re IFR they’ll try to run you into VFR aircraft and not care because they’re VFR. If you’re VFR they’ll try to bust you for going through Class D since they’re the only approach control I’ve ever experienced that doesn’t coordinate transitions on flight following as a policy. And dump you off FF right outside your destination and make you circle while trying to get a word in edgewise with tower.

TL;dr I don’t like Phoenix.
 
If you’re IFR they’ll try to run you into VFR aircraft and not care because they’re VFR. If you’re VFR they’ll try to bust you for going through Class D since they’re the only approach control I’ve ever experienced that doesn’t coordinate transitions on flight following as a policy. And dump you off FF right outside your destination and make you circle while trying to get a word in edgewise with tower.

TL;dr I don’t like Phoenix.
Agree. PHX TRACON provides poor service to GA aircraft, but it’s not that bad.
 
If you’re IFR they’ll try to run you into VFR aircraft and not care because they’re VFR. If you’re VFR they’ll try to bust you for going through Class D since they’re the only approach control I’ve ever experienced that doesn’t coordinate transitions on flight following as a policy. And dump you off FF right outside your destination and make you circle while trying to get a word in edgewise with tower.

TL;dr I don’t like Phoenix.

dont know why people even bother with flight following when VFR. It’s useless. It’s the lowest priority for ATC, even if they do give it to you. Just fly your own navigation, especially in these days of magenta following.
 
I use to fly between Aus-dvt-Aus quite frequently, moving airplanes for my flight school. I always went ifr. Routing generally from ELP-DVT or vice versa was always ELP DMN SSO TFD DVT.

once in the Phx bravo forget about any shortcuts once you’re in the southeast side of the valley (assuming you’re flying GA)

going east bound I believe the MEA is 10k but they’d give me opposite direction 12 to get over some of the seldom cloud layers that would be frequent around 11k. Mid summer watch out for thunder storms that spring out of now where but other then that it’s a fairly easy journey.
 
dont know why people even bother with flight following when VFR. It’s useless. It’s the lowest priority for ATC, even if they do give it to you. Just fly your own navigation, especially in these days of magenta following.

Agreed, but when I was at the Mormon flight academy, FF was a requirement for x-countries. But forget about it if you were in a sector that center controlled. SLC TRACON, however was always very polite and accommodating. As far as magenta following, what's the difference with filing IFR? As you're just going from VOR to VOR on a radial? Or waypoint to waypoint. I know that when I did my x-countries, I was VFR, but in the flight plan I was still flying VOR to VOR, which created a magenta line on the G-1000.

G-1000 hate, I'm here for it! :)

Sculprit said:
I use to fly between Aus-dvt-Aus quite frequently, moving airplanes for my flight school. I always went ifr. Routing generally from ELP-DVT or vice versa was always ELP DMN SSO TFD DVT.

once in the Phx bravo forget about any shortcuts once you’re in the southeast side of the valley (assuming you’re flying GA)

going east bound I believe the MEA is 10k but they’d give me opposite direction 12 to get over some of the seldom cloud layers that would be frequent around 11k. Mid summer watch out for thunder storms that spring out of now where but other then that it’s a fairly easy journey.

How long were those flights?
 
dont know why people even bother with flight following when VFR. It’s useless. It’s the lowest priority for ATC, even if they do give it to you. Just fly your own navigation, especially in these days of magenta following.
Not SoCal's or NorCal's airspace. We get more separation than I often want. Yes, I'm talking about outside of TRSA, class B and C airspace. VFR to IFR, VFR to VFR and VFR to not talking to them.

At the Pilot / ATC meetings they want us to call in for flight following.
 
Not SoCal's or NorCal's airspace. We get more separation than I often want. Yes, I'm talking about outside of TRSA, class B and C airspace. VFR to IFR, VFR to VFR and VFR to not talking to them.

At the Pilot / ATC meetings they want us to call in for flight following.

interesting. Because I often hear SoCal (rightfully) denying flight following to aircraft requesting it, as they’re usually busy as heck in the Riverside area during peak hours
 
That’s rare. When it happens I check in with the next sector.
I also set up flight following with ground control or clearance delivery before I takeoff. When I’ve ask for that at PHX area airports I hear; We don’t do that here. Safety of Flight does not seem important to PHX TRACON.
 
dont know why people even bother with flight following when VFR. It’s useless. It’s the lowest priority for ATC, even if they do give it to you. Just fly your own navigation, especially in these days of magenta following.
Traffic avoidance. In the SFO area, it's always been a great service and they're used to lots of aircraft doing it. All the NorCal controllers I've ever talked to agree that if you're VFR around the Bravo and Charlie, even avoiding it, they'd rather talk to you. I've never felt like ATC out here has ever been paying no attention and letting planes wizz past me, they're very proactive and always coordinate whatever VFR pilots ask for unless SFO has closed off the surface to transitions or there is a TFR. Even when I go out to Sacramento, Chico, down to Monterey, etc they're also very good about it.

That’s rare. When it happens I check in with the next sector.
I also set up flight following with ground control or clearance delivery before I takeoff. When I’ve ask for that at PHX area airports I hear; We don’t do that here. Safety of Flight does not seem important to PHX TRACON.
LOL, a buddy at NorCal told me he always does this when flying GA. If SFO says no surface transitions and he's coming up the Peninsula, he just heads to another sector to come in from another angle and ends up being cleared through at a higher altitude than normal. I also request flight following on my initial contact with ground, never heard a peep about that annoying controllers during my various tower tours and I hear others do the same frequency.

All that said, I have noticed that the West Coast controllers are really chill compared to a lot of the country. As Air Wagner has shown us, my experience is you have a 99% chance of getting, "Hey, don't do that" or "Uh, you're in the Bravo get out" and not a phone number so long as you aren't screwing up left and right or giving them any attitude, or of course causing a loss of seperation. Oakland Center and most towers also tend to be comparatively laid back, even in busy areas. People from other parts of the country make it sound like life is so terrible here, yet, people seem chill and happy. :)
 
Last edited:
Traffic avoidance. In the SFO area, it's always been a great service and they're used to lots of aircraft doing it. All the NorCal controllers I've ever talked to agree that if you're VFR around the Bravo and Charlie, even avoiding it, they'd rather talk to you. I've never felt like ATC out here has ever been paying no attention and letting planes wizz past me, they're very proactive and always coordinate whatever VFR pilots ask for unless SFO has closed off the surface to transitions or there is a TFR. Even when I go out to Sacramento, Chico, down to Monterey, etc they're also very good about it.


LOL, a buddy at NorCal told me he always does this when flying GA. If SFO says no surface transitions and he's coming up the Peninsula, he just heads to another sector to come in from another angle and ends up being cleared through at a higher altitude than normal. I also request flight following on my initial contact with ground, never heard a peep about that annoying controllers during my various tower tours and I hear others do the same frequency.

All that said, I have noticed that the West Coast controllers are really chill compared to a lot of the country. As Air Wagner has shown us, my experience is you have a 99% chance of getting, "Hey, don't do that" or "Uh, you're in the Bravo get out" and not a phone number so long as you aren't screwing up left and right or giving them any attitude, or of course causing a loss of seperation. Oakland Center and most towers also tend to be comparatively laid back, even in busy areas. People from other parts of the country make it sound like life is so terrible here, yet, people seem chill and happy. :)
From my GA days, I agree that Norcal controlers were great. There is a dick in the tower at Chico however. socal was usually a cluster unless it was late at night, and generally not helpful. Back east Cincinnati was the best I dealt with. They’d clear you through the bravo before you even asked.
 
Back
Top