Complete prohibitions of Russians by FAA

NOGUFFCHET

Well-Known Member
I met with my DPE today to get an SOE limitation removed on a type rating. In conversation after handling the paperwork he mentioned having to cancel a checkride tomorrow because the applicant had dual citizenship (US & Russia) and the prohibition in the NOTAMS. I had thought the FAA had restricted Russian registry's and airlines, etc. however the NOTAM reads as attached. Pretty scary stuff, I imagine there are more than a few career pilots who happen to be Russians in our system, kind of a bummer to lose flying in its entirety because Putin is a D**che.
 

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I think the writing is on the wall. Dual citizenship with russia is probably going to be a thing of the past in the near future. I get how frustrating this must be for those affected, but I doubt that the freedom to travel back and forth is going to continue to be a thing. Being a russian Native American citizen, and continuing to hold russian citizenship are two different things as well.
 
In conversation after handling the paperwork he mentioned having to cancel a checkride tomorrow because the applicant had dual citizenship (US & Russia) and the prohibition in the NOTAMS.
Looks like the FAA screwed this up.

To avoid constitutional issues, the NOTAM should have read "foreign nationals with Russian citizenship" versus "Russian citizens". This would have eliminated all the legal issues of discriminating against US citizens that also have dual citizenship.
 
I think the writing is on the wall. Dual citizenship with russia is probably going to be a thing of the past in the near future. I get how frustrating this must be for those affected, but I doubt that the freedom to travel back and forth is going to continue to be a thing. Being a russian Native American citizen, and continuing to hold russian citizenship are two different things as well.
The Supreme Court has ruled on this and it's unlikely to be revisited. U.S. citizens forego no rights as a result of their dual citizenship.

Historically, the U.S. has exempted dual citizens from travel bans, for the most part.
 
The Supreme Court has ruled on this and it's unlikely to be revisited. U.S. citizens forego no rights as a result of their dual citizenship.

Historically, the U.S. has exempted dual citizens from travel bans, for the most part.

My question was more the other way around.....will russia allow this to continue?
 
People don't know how to read?

After a semi colon ; it refers to the group affected.

This is how it is read:


FDC 2/9510 ZZZ PART 1 OF 2 SECURITY...SPECIAL SECURITY INSTRUCTIONS
(SSI)
PROHIBITION ON RUSSIAN FLIGHT OPERATIONS IN THE TERRITORIAL AIRSPACE
OF THE U.S.
PURSUANT TO 49 USC SECTIONS 40103 AND 40113(A),


ALL RUSSIAN AIR CARRIERS AND COMMERCIAL OPERATORS, REGARDLESS OF THE STATE OF
REGISTRY OF THE AIRCRAFT;



ALL AIRCRAFT REGISTERED IN THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION;


ALL RUSSIAN STATE AIRCRAFT, REGARDLESS OF THE STATE OF REGISTRY OF THE AIRCRAFT;



AND ALL AIRCRAFT, REGARDLESS OF THE STATE OF REGISTRY, OWNED, CHARTERED, LEASED, OPERATED OR CONTROLLED BY,
FOR, OR FOR THE BENEFIT OF, A PERSON WHO IS A CITIZEN OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION ARE PROHIBITED FROM OPERATING TO, FROM, WITHIN, OR
THROUGH U.S. TERRITORIAL AIRSPACE
, EXCEPT FOR AIRCRAFT ENGAGED IN
HUMANITARIAN OR SAR OPERATIONS SPECIFICALLY AUTHORIZED BY THE FAA,
STATE AIRCRAFT OPERATIONS GRANTED A DIPLOMATIC CLEARANCE BY THE U.S.
DEPARTMENT OF STATE AND AIRCRAFT EXPERIENCING IN-FLIGHT EMERGENCIES.
ALL EXCEPTED AIRCRAFT OPERATIONS UNDER THIS NOTAM MUST RECEIVE
APPROPRIATE ECONOMIC AUTHORIZATION FROM THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF
TRANSPORTATION PRIOR TO CONDUCTING FLIGHT OPERATIONS TO, FROM,
WITHIN, OR THROUGH U.S. TERRITORIAL AIRSPACE.
AIRCRAFT OPERATORS SUBJECT TO THIS NOTAM WHO DO NOT COMPLY WITH
2203030200-2205252359



It does not mean a citizen of Russia is prohibited in the United States from operating planes. The NOTAM reads "all aircraft for the benefit of" a person who is a Russian federation. So no airplanes flying Russians around for their benefit.



Right? RIGHT?


I'm ESL. Some of y'all English natives can probably explain better.
 
People don't know how to read?

After a semi colon ; it refers to the group affected.

This is how it is read:


FDC 2/9510 ZZZ PART 1 OF 2 SECURITY...SPECIAL SECURITY INSTRUCTIONS
(SSI)
PROHIBITION ON RUSSIAN FLIGHT OPERATIONS IN THE TERRITORIAL AIRSPACE
OF THE U.S.
PURSUANT TO 49 USC SECTIONS 40103 AND 40113(A),


ALL RUSSIAN AIR CARRIERS AND COMMERCIAL OPERATORS, REGARDLESS OF THE STATE OF
REGISTRY OF THE AIRCRAFT;



ALL AIRCRAFT REGISTERED IN THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION;


ALL RUSSIAN STATE AIRCRAFT, REGARDLESS OF THE STATE OF REGISTRY OF THE AIRCRAFT;



AND ALL AIRCRAFT, REGARDLESS OF THE STATE OF REGISTRY, OWNED, CHARTERED, LEASED, OPERATED OR CONTROLLED BY,
FOR, OR FOR THE BENEFIT OF, A PERSON WHO IS A CITIZEN OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION ARE PROHIBITED FROM OPERATING TO, FROM, WITHIN, OR
THROUGH U.S. TERRITORIAL AIRSPACE
, EXCEPT FOR AIRCRAFT ENGAGED IN
HUMANITARIAN OR SAR OPERATIONS SPECIFICALLY AUTHORIZED BY THE FAA,
STATE AIRCRAFT OPERATIONS GRANTED A DIPLOMATIC CLEARANCE BY THE U.S.
DEPARTMENT OF STATE AND AIRCRAFT EXPERIENCING IN-FLIGHT EMERGENCIES.
ALL EXCEPTED AIRCRAFT OPERATIONS UNDER THIS NOTAM MUST RECEIVE
APPROPRIATE ECONOMIC AUTHORIZATION FROM THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF
TRANSPORTATION PRIOR TO CONDUCTING FLIGHT OPERATIONS TO, FROM,
WITHIN, OR THROUGH U.S. TERRITORIAL AIRSPACE.
AIRCRAFT OPERATORS SUBJECT TO THIS NOTAM WHO DO NOT COMPLY WITH
2203030200-2205252359



It does not mean a citizen of Russia is prohibited in the United States from operating planes. The NOTAM reads "all aircraft for the benefit of" a person who is a Russian federation. So no airplanes flying Russians around for their benefit.



Right? RIGHT?


I'm ESL. Some of y'all English natives can probably explain better.
I read it just fine. You’re wrong.
 
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I met with my DPE today to get an SOE limitation removed on a type rating. In conversation after handling the paperwork he mentioned having to cancel a checkride tomorrow because the applicant had dual citizenship (US & Russia) and the prohibition in the NOTAMS. I had thought the FAA had restricted Russian registry's and airlines, etc. however the NOTAM reads as attached. Pretty scary stuff, I imagine there are more than a few career pilots who happen to be Russians in our system, kind of a bummer to lose flying in its entirety because Putin is a D**che.
There’s already a thread about this.
There’s a phone number listed in the NOTAM you might be able to call for an exemption
 
I read it just fine. You’re wrong.

Where?

How do you interpret this…

AND ALL AIRCRAFT, REGARDLESS OF THE STATE OF REGISTRY, OWNED, CHARTERED, LEASED, OPERATED OR CONTROLLED BY,
FOR, OR FOR THE BENEFIT OF, A PERSON WHO IS A CITIZEN OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION ARE PROHIBITED FROM OPERATING TO, FROM, WITHIN, OR
THROUGH U.S. TERRITORIAL AIRSPACE,
 
Let's just change some of your bolded words and see if that helps with reading comprehension:

Where?

How do you interpret this…

AND ALL AIRCRAFT, REGARDLESS OF THE STATE OF REGISTRY, OWNED, CHARTERED, LEASED, OPERATED OR CONTROLLED BY,
FOR, OR FOR THE BENEFIT OF, A PERSON WHO IS A CITIZEN OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION ARE PROHIBITED FROM OPERATING TO, FROM, WITHIN, OR
THROUGH U.S. TERRITORIAL AIRSPACE,
 
Let's just change some of your bolded words and see if that helps with reading comprehension:
The only interesting questions are whether transport is considered a benefit to a pax and whether they really mean foreign nationals with Russian citizenship. An American citizen with dual citizenship is not a foreign national. It appears that the FAA failed to consult an attorney when penning this NOTAM.
 
The words "foreign national" are not used in the NOTAM. The words "a citizen of the Russian Federation" are. A person with dual US/Russian citizenship is not a "foreign national." A person with dual US/Russian citizenship is "a citizen of the Russian Federation."

The intent of the NOTAM seems fairly clear to me.
 
The words "foreign national" are not used in the NOTAM. The words "a citizen of the Russian Federation" are. A person with dual US/Russian citizenship is not a "foreign national." A person with dual US/Russian citizenship is "a citizen of the Russian Federation."

The intent of the NOTAM seems fairly clear to me.

I think it's clear from my earlier post that I understand the definition of foreign national.

As I mentioned previously, the Supreme Court and and lesser courts have already precluded action against US citizens based on their dual citizenship.

Thus, my point, is the FAA going to act outside the law or were they just sloppy and don't actually plan on illegal restrictions on US citizens.
 
And if you don't like the answer from your local FSDO contact another FSDO as they will have a completely different answer.
I asked my friendly local FSDO if I really needed to do American Flyers since my title is “chief pilot.” They told me that I could only renew my CFI based on duties and responsibilities if I worked for a 121/135 operation. Meanwhile in Wichita…my check airman status at a 91 shop worked great for a renewal…
 
Let's just change some of your bolded words and see if that helps with reading comprehension:
The first two bolted parts SOLELY refer to the airplane. “All aircraft, regardless of the state, lease, charter, operated, or controlled by….”

That refers to the aircraft and its owner/operator. Regardless. As in Part 121, 135, 91, etc.


Next part talks about who the flight is operated for:

FOR, OR FOR THE BENEFIT OF, A PERSON WHO IS A CITIZEN OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION ARE PROHIBITED FROM OPERATING TO, FROM, WITHIN, OR
THROUGH U.S. TERRITORIAL AIRSPACE,


(aircraft operated) FOR, or FOR THE BENEFIT OF…. Citizen of Russian federation etc etc



Meaning, the occupant of that plane and that aircraft is operating for the benefit of this passenger occupant.



I don’t see the other interpretation. I just don’t. The commas and semi-colons are key to understanding.
 
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