Spirit and Frontier to Merge

[tcco94]

This thread is a dumbster fire filled with petty grown men, hahahahahaha

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Damn dude. Your memory is slippin'. You put him on your ignore for quite awhile in the past. You took him off and put him on several times. Even at times announcing in anger/frustration that he was being blocked, or going back on the ignore list. The very thing that you abhor now. The two of you have enjoyed quite the animus in the past and have not always been the convenient bedfellows that you are currently.

I don’t remember this at all, and I question whether it’s even accurate. But assuming it is, that would be regretful behavior and not something I’d be proud of.

Don’t waste your time. He and now Todd have some weird fetish following me around. It’s creepy.

This is downright hilarious. You have followed me around in the creepiest way imaginable on this board for at least a few years, even posting photos of me as your avatar, and you want to call me creepy? You have a real problem.

 

[lostplanetairman]

This thing is going to be really interesting.

As a straight business decision, it makes perfect sense. Economies of scale, quit beating each other up for market share, etc..

Both companies have had somewhat hostile treatment of labor during straight section 6 negotiations, historically. Obviously, one group was able to take it to a strike back in 2010 or whenever that was. As far as management handling the SLI, JCBA, and operational merger, they have to be really, really careful with this. If history is any guide, they aren't going to come in and make it rain and install slurpee machines in the crew lounges (what's a crew lounge, actually?). However, right now, both companies seem to be having fairly significant problems with attrition, particularly F/O attrition. Unless their plan is to staff F/O seats with E3 work visa Australians and ATP/Purdue grads, if they make this drag out too long before coming up with an acceptable JCBA, the attrition problem is going to get significantly worse.

What's good is that both companies have nearly identical pay and career expectations, similar work rules, and a pilot group age. In theory, that should make things fairly equitable. Certainly, someone will get screwed, and someone will make out way better than they should. That's just the nature of the beast. I'm sure people are already licking their chops at changing bases (Denver, anyone?) and kicking the natives out....just be careful what you wish for.

Back on track to discussing the subject of this thread.

You have to understand that in 2010, Spirit was controlled by Indigo with Bill Franke at the helm. Our contact became amendable in 2006. He came in and threw out everything that had been negotiated and forced us to start from scratch. He hates pilots.

In 2009, Spirit made over $100 million with 32 airplanes while everyone else was losing money.

They put forth a contract proposal that said pilots would not gain longevity unless they actually flew 750 hours per year. We all knew where that would go; you would get hired and stay on first year pay for a long time as they kept you just below 750 hours each year. In fact they would keep everyone at 749 hours per year. Then, just like charging for bags and everything else where we set the trend, other companies would follow suit and the profession would be destroyed. This was Bill Franke’s idea. The company mounted a public campaign saying how much per our they offered, of course only listing 12 year CA pay. The public responded by calling us greedy for rejecting what they calculated as $400,000/ year pay for all pilots in the company.

We went on strike. They arrogantly believed pilots would cross the line, management would fly and they could hire other companies to fly our routes. 100% of the pilots walked. Management stepped down to the line. And the one flight that took off resulted in the two pilots finding gifts on their lawns when they landed that same day and further flights canceled.

Then they tried sending an email to our home emails at 4 pm on 6/14 saying we would not get paid the next day. Their big ticket lawyers at Ford and Harrison either forgot about the base in ACY or thought everyone was stupid. My HR wife said it’s only 4 pm. The state offices were open until 4:30. She fired off a formal charge to the NJ department of labor and workforce development and attached the email. They immediately responded that they were sending a notification to Ben Baldanza to issue wages as required by NJ law. We got paid on time 6/15.

The company was out of options. Not a single flight operated since the Saturday contact flight. The investors were anxious. So, the company came to the table and we settled.

Bill Franke will be in charge again.

I am glad to be retired from that and just the part time weather maker at FSI now. But I feel for my friends as the contract is amendable in one year from now.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

Don’t waste your time. He and now Todd have some weird fetish following me around. It’s creepy.
I apologize for saying @Cherokee_Cruiser is the worst kind of person. It is pretty • to count cash in front of members of this community involved with this merger. The crowd rushing to that defense and to pile on and try to slander my character are on brand. I wouldn’t lose a second of sleep worrying about trying to receive a grain of respect from them.

I don't know why I can see your posts again but since I can: Awwww did someone call you out on your behavior?? Boo hoo. I can't use an acronym to describe you anymore apparently, but you're a horrible person. You have horrible friends. In the end you'll get yours.

 

[BigZ]

I think I got all the memes that existed.

And didn't share? ................?

 

[BobDDuck]

@BEEF SUPREME, @mikecweb , and @SlumTodd_Millionaire, get the • out of this thread. People facing a merger have real, actual stressors, not your dumb •, dick measuring problems that nobody • cares about.

 

[derg]

This thing is going to be really interesting.

As a straight business decision, it makes perfect sense. Economies of scale, quit beating each other up for market share, etc..

Both companies have had somewhat hostile treatment of labor during straight section 6 negotiations, historically. Obviously, one group was able to take it to a strike back in 2010 or whenever that was. As far as management handling the SLI, JCBA, and operational merger, they have to be really, really careful with this. If history is any guide, they aren't going to come in and make it rain and install slurpee machines in the crew lounges (what's a crew lounge, actually?). However, right now, both companies seem to be having fairly significant problems with attrition, particularly F/O attrition. Unless their plan is to staff F/O seats with E3 work visa Australians and ATP/Purdue grads, if they make this drag out too long before coming up with an acceptable JCBA, the attrition problem is going to get significantly worse.

What's good is that both companies have nearly identical pay and career expectations, similar work rules, and a pilot group age. In theory, that should make things fairly equitable. Certainly, someone will get screwed, and someone will make out way better than they should. That's just the nature of the beast. I'm sure people are already licking their chops at changing bases (Denver, anyone?) and kicking the natives out....just be careful what you wish for.

Way simpler.

I explain mergers like this.

You’re child of a single mother. You’re happy, mom’s happy and cares for you.

Then mom meets a boy in a bar and brings him home. But unbeknownst to you she’s been dating this guy for years but never divulged that to you because you’re just a kid.

Then mommy and her new boyfriend are going to shack up.

Cool, ok, no changes just mommies boyfriend is living in the house.

But guess what, mommies boyfriend has a son and they both inform you that you’re ‘upgrading’ to a bunk bed and her boyfriends son is going to be sharing it with you and to be kind about sharing and you MUST play well with him.

The new kid arrives, thinks your bedroom is really HIS bedroom and you’ve got to work together because neither mommy or her new boyfriend give a poop what you think.

Be mad, or not, but at the end of the day, no one cares but you and your new soon-to-be stepbrother.

THAT’s a merger.

 

[roundout]

Back on track to discussing the subject of this thread.

You have to understand that in 2010, Spirit was controlled by Indigo with Bill Franke at the helm. Our contact became amendable in 2006. He came in and threw out everything that had been negotiated and forced us to start from scratch. He hates pilots.

In 2009, Spirit made over $100 million with 32 airplanes while everyone else was losing money.

They put forth a contract proposal that said pilots would not gain longevity unless they actually flew 750 hours per year. We all knew where that would go; you would get hired and stay on first year pay for a long time as they kept you just below 750 hours each year. In fact they would keep everyone at 749 hours per year. Then, just like charging for bags and everything else where we set the trend, other companies would follow suit and the profession would be destroyed. This was Bill Franke’s idea. The company mounted a public campaign saying how much per our they offered, of course only listing 12 year CA pay. The public responded by calling us greedy for rejecting what they calculated as $400,000/ year pay for all pilots in the company.

We went on strike. They arrogantly believed pilots would cross the line, management would fly and they could hire other companies to fly our routes. 100% of the pilots walked. Management stepped down to the line. And the one flight that took off resulted in the two pilots finding gifts on their lawns when they landed that same day and further flights canceled.

Then they tried sending an email to our home emails at 4 pm on 6/14 saying we would not get paid the next day. Their big ticket lawyers at Ford and Harrison either forgot about the base in ACY or thought everyone was stupid. My HR wife said it’s only 4 pm. The state offices were open until 4:30. She fired off a formal charge to the NJ department of labor and workforce development and attached the email. They immediately responded that they were sending a notification to Ben Baldanza to issue wages as required by NJ law. We got paid on time 6/15.

The company was out of options. Not a single flight operated since the Saturday contact flight. The investors were anxious. So, the company came to the table and we settled.

Bill Franke will be in charge again.

I am glad to be retired from that and just the part time weather maker at FSI now. But I feel for my friends as the contract is amendable in one year from now.View attachment 63330

I appreciate the path which you guys and gals blazed. When both groups were in section 6 negotiations a few years ago, I attended a picket with SPA and stood with them all morning. It was humbling being in the same briefing room with people who had the stones to take it all the way.

Franke is Franke. They dragged out section 6 at our place until they started having problems hiring and retaining pilots. That’s when things got serious, and we got a pretty decent CBA out of them. Both companies involved here are already having problems again. It will be really interesting to see what route management takes with this. Will they come to play, or are they going to offer a dead decade junk CBA to sow discord, infighting, and disunity? Stay tuned…

 

[Screaming_Emu]

Way simpler.

I explain mergers like this.

You’re child of a single mother. You’re happy, mom’s happy and cares for you.

Then mom meets a boy in a bar and brings him home. But unbeknownst to you she’s been dating this guy for years but never divulged that to you because you’re just a kid.

Then mommy and her new boyfriend are going to shack up.

Cool, ok, no changes just mommies boyfriend is living in the house.

But guess what, mommies boyfriend has a son and they both inform you that you’re ‘upgrading’ to a bunk bed and her boyfriends son is going to be sharing it with you and to be kind about sharing and you MUST play well with him.

The new kid arrives, thinks your bedroom is really HIS bedroom and you’ve got to work together because neither mommy or her new boyfriend give a poop what you think.

Be mad, or not, but at the end of the day, no one cares but you and your new soon-to-be stepbrother.

THAT’s a merger.

 

[roundout]

Way simpler.

I explain mergers like this.

You’re child of a single mother. You’re happy, mom’s happy and cares for you.

Then mom meets a boy in a bar and brings him home. But unbeknownst to you she’s been dating this guy for years but never divulged that to you because you’re just a kid.

Then mommy and her new boyfriend are going to shack up.

Cool, ok, no changes just mommies boyfriend is living in the house.

But guess what, mommies boyfriend has a son and they both inform you that you’re ‘upgrading’ to a bunk bed and her boyfriends son is going to be sharing it with you and to be kind about sharing and you MUST play well with him.

The new kid arrives, thinks your bedroom is really HIS bedroom and you’ve got to work together because neither mommy or her new boyfriend give a poop what you think.

Be mad, or not, but at the end of the day, no one cares but you and your new soon-to-be stepbrother.

THAT’s a merger.

I like this global view. I think my assessment came across a little too micro. There's a reason I work in the end of the airplane with buttons and say "checked" a lot and not in the office trying to orchestrate all this foolishness.

 

[Avalon781ML]

Strongly disagree. At least in my case he took a great deal of pleasure when I was blackballed by an anti semitic pilot group that abused a merit based upgrade system. It says a lot about the circles he runs in and who he is. He's on my ignore list but I didn't need to guess who you are were talking about.

The sad thing is how a total POS like this will use his once every two year golden BB to get a huge following of ass kissers. Then they become hateful little minions trying to get that crack at the interview and backing up anything the POS says.

Not cool to accuse someone of unethical behavior without supporting proof. I know Mike and what you’ve stated literally couldn’t be further from the truth. Please show proof of misconduct on Mike’s behalf or apologize for falsely accusing him.

Name calling on this forum has become the new norm and I don’t like it regardless of the person doing the name calling… myself included. We all need to grow up and figure out a better way of expressing ourselves without resorting to juvenile like behavior.

Another new norm is individuals lack of self awareness and people seemingly unable to recognize that there are, will, and always will be differing opinions to their own… I haven’t witnessed someone saying “I believe XYZ and I don’t agree with what you are saying but I might be wrong.” We are not infallible.

In an age where we have made huge advances in medicine, technology, and travel it sometimes appears that pilots can’t focus on the future and are myopically stuck perseverating on the past. Move on… pet rocks aren’t in fashion anymore and you missed out on TSLAs IPO… big whoop. Replaying the past ad nauseam will keep you from missing what is right in front of you.

So to everyone as I step off the soapbox (myself included)… cultivate your brain and demeanor to match (or exceed) your human bodily age.

 

[Screaming_Emu]

Not cool to accuse someone of unethical behavior without supporting proof. I know Mike and what you’ve stated literally couldn’t be further from the truth. Please show proof of misconduct on Mike’s behalf or apologize for falsely accusing him.

Name calling on this forum has become the new norm and I don’t like it regardless of the person doing the name calling… myself included. We all need to grow up and figure out a better way of expressing ourselves without resorting to juvenile like behavior.

Another new norm is individuals lack of self awareness and people seemingly unable to recognize that there are, will, and always will be differing opinions to their own… I haven’t witnessed someone saying “I believe XYZ and I don’t agree with what you are saying but I might be wrong.” We are not infallible.

In an age where we have made huge advances in medicine, technology, and travel it sometimes appears that pilots can’t focus on the future and are myopically stuck perseverating on the past. Move on… pet rocks aren’t in fashion anymore and you missed out on TSLAs IPO… big whoop. Replaying the past ad nauseam will keep you from missing what is right in front of you.

So to everyone as I step off the soapbox (myself included)… cultivate your brain and demeanor to match (or exceed) your human bodily age.

I don’t want to point fingers or tell management how to run this place, but there are a few people seemingly intent on ruining this place and not much consequence for them when they act like idiots.

This…isn’t a lot of fun anymore.

 

[Minuteman]

Way simpler.

I explain mergers like this.

You’re child of a single mother. You’re happy, mom’s happy and cares for you.

Then mom meets a boy in a bar and brings him home. But unbeknownst to you she’s been dating this guy for years but never divulged that to you because you’re just a kid.

Then mommy and her new boyfriend are going to shack up.

Cool, ok, no changes just mommies boyfriend is living in the house.

But guess what, mommies boyfriend has a son and they both inform you that you’re ‘upgrading’ to a bunk bed and her boyfriends son is going to be sharing it with you and to be kind about sharing and you MUST play well with him.

The new kid arrives, thinks your bedroom is really HIS bedroom and you’ve got to work together because neither mommy or her new boyfriend give a poop what you think.

Be mad, or not, but at the end of the day, no one cares but you and your new soon-to-be stepbrother.

THAT’s a merger.

I've known stories like this where the third act has poop in inappropriate places and police cars.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

I don’t want to point fingers or tell management how to run this place, but there are a few people seemingly intent on ruining this place and not much consequence for them when they act like idiots.

This…isn’t a lot of fun anymore.

What you don’t seem to get is that everyone is in agreement on that…but we think different people are the source of the problem. You would probably point at me, @Cherokee_Cruiser, @Apophis, etc. I would point at @mikecweb, @ppragman, etc.

 

[Prino]

I hope this works out for you guys. I’m assuming this will result in less routes being flown to places like Vegas ?

 

[CFIscare]

What you don’t seem to get is that everyone is in agreement on that…but we think different people are the source of the problem. You would probably point at me, @Cherokee_Cruiser, @Apophis, etc. I would point at @mikecweb, @ppragman, etc.

But in reality it’s all of you.

 

[Avalon781ML]

I don’t want to point fingers or tell management how to run this place, but there are a few people seemingly intent on ruining this place and not much consequence for them when they act like idiots.

This…isn’t a lot of fun anymore.

I would agree it isn’t much fun… it isn’t the same place I stumbled upon in college but I am extraordinarily grateful for the career/lifelong friends that I’ve made… I visit this forum perhaps a few times a week and post even more infrequently because I’d rather not get caught up in the bedlam.

 

[ryan4sail]

I hope this works out for you guys. I’m assuming this will result in less routes being flown to places like Vegas ?

They claim that one of the main reasons for the merger is to be able to add frequency to cities both airlines already serve. This will help out in IROP situations to allow passengers to have multiple flights to be rebooked on. For example. Spirit does LAS-DEN 2x per day, F9 does it 4x a day. so we'll essentially have much more operational reliability with the increased frequency. Their words, not mine.

 

[derg]

I've known stories like this where the third act has poop in inappropriate places and police cars.

Oh, we have had ours improper eliminators!

 

[roundout]

I hope this works out for you guys. I’m assuming this will result in less routes being flown to places like Vegas ?

I bet the opposite. Number one, Franke loves Vegas. Everyone loves Vegas. Let's say Cedar Rapids has a Frontier flight 2x a week and a spirit 3x a week. Now it'll just be a daily flight, like most other airlines.