Emirates near disaster on takeoff

typhoonpilot said:
There is no Boeing procedure to ever set 0 in the MCP altitude selector. Any airline that does that is not following Boeing standard procedures from the FCOM or FCTM. It was never a procedure at Emirates.

Emirated did away with the Takeoff Review since I left (not sure why), but there are at least 3 times that the MCP altitude should be checked during pre-flight and before engine start. Why and how this crew missed all of that is a mystery that will come out in the eventual investigation. The old Takeoff Review would have caught the mistake for sure.

I know a bit more information, but I'll just say it will be interesting to see how some possible dynamics between the crew played into this incident or if that will even come out. Not sure how if any of these crew were newly returned from a layoff during Covid and how recent they were. That could be another factor.
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The crew was terminated already correct? If so how does that play into the safety culture at Emirates?
 
USMCmech said:
Honestly this is the way it should be.

Top quality training, airline procedures from day one, heavy use of sims, and high standards. It must cost a fortune, which is why US based airlines will never go for it.
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Uhhhh, one Major US Airline started their own academy with what you described....
 
Murdoughnut said:
I would say the 1,500 hour rule will be dropped in the coming years but someone will rightfully point out that I said the same thing a few years ago.

www.wsj.com

The 2013 FAA Rule That’s Being Blamed for Today’s Pilot Shortage

As travel rebounds from the pandemic, carriers big and small are scrambling to hire pilots. But some airline executives say a 2013 regulation is standing in the way, and they want the government to revisit the so-called 1,500-hour rule. WSJ’s Shelby Holliday explains. Photo: David Fang for WSJ
www.wsj.com www.wsj.com
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It won’t be with how well connected the 3407 families are in DC. Much better connected than the airport trade groups.
 
Seggy said:
The crew was terminated already correct? If so how does that play into the safety culture at Emirates?
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That's the rumor, not verified.

I know your question is both rhetorical and sarcastic and I don't disagree with your thoughts so no need to really answer it.
 
The problem from when I was there (anecdotally) is that the standards have dropped. I spent 8 years in the Emirates training department and wrote the two courses that brought the cadet pilots onto the B777 fleet. So I have some knowledge as to their level of training and what the graduation requirements were. We had no problem dropping pilots who were not performing to the expected standard, no matter what their nationality, and that was supported by training management.
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Come on, you are saying that if a 'local' was having problems you would have let them go without any issues?
 
ppragman said:
Hot take here, but yes?

My buddy used to be an approach controller and he had a quote that always cracked me up. “There’s nothing more terrifying than a 400hr pilot in a jet that moves 400kts… I basically just keep everybody away from them and try not to think about the 250 below ten rules…”
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To be accurate, any single pilot military tactical jet, isn’t going to have the constraint of 250 below 10K. They’re waived.
 
ZapBrannigan said:
Here's the thing. The military has ZERO PROBLEM washing out a candidate at any phase of training.

Civilian puppy mills that are being paid either by the client or the airline have historically pushed, and prodded, and helped, and squeezed to get the weakest link through. If they truly held candidates to the highest standard and washed them out if they failed to perform I'd be much more likely to accept such a program.
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Truth. One guy in the pilot training class ahead of me on the fighter track, washed out by busting a ride in the last few weeks. Was last in the number he could bust. 11 months or work, shot to hell.

Richman said:
"Buh, buh, the military does it!". I would argue that it is NOT the same. Military life means you are under almost constant scrutiny, and if you eff up, you're out. More so, there is vastly more, let's call it, "peer to peer mentoring", so that losers, jackholes, slackers and others that can't cut it are quickly identified and marshalled out of the program. That's never going to happen in the civilian world, which is why a 2-3 year long period is so critical. If someone is a tool or unable, that will eventually show up in their job history, simply because these kinds of people either show themselves the door, or are identified by employers as problem children.
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Constant scrutiny is putting it mildly. Everything you do is monitored, graded, ranked, etc. And even when you graduate from the graduate training for your airframe, for a single-seat fighter jet guy for example, you aren’t just given a jet to go do with what you want. You’re a wingman and fly in flights of 2, 3, 4 or more, learning the craft by……for all intents and purposes……being the equivalent of a co-pilot who just happens to be in the cockpit of another plane. You fight and employ as a formation, and gain the knowledge and experience from there to move up to things like element lead and flight lead (section/division lead, for the USN/USMC types). You aren’t out there with 200 hours just raging around in your own fighter jet, on your own unsupervised and being a one-man Air Force. The one and only fighter jet that was single-pilot and operated single-ship, no wingman, solo, all the time in combat…..the F-117……took Instructor Pilot qualification and 1000 hours minimum (normally more to be competitive) with at least 2 tours in your previous tactical jet airframe, before you could even apply for the program. There were no young newbies in that airframe.
 
killbilly said:
Man, I don't know if I'm a substandard hack of a pilot or not, but I've got a strong pass rate and I've sent some kids to the service academies and all of my students are still alive, …..
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Well now you just jinxed yourself…..and them.

:)
 
Seggy said:
Come on, you are saying that if a 'local' was having problems you would have let them go without any issues?
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Not my decision to let someone go, only if they were meeting the standard or not. But, yes management had no problem letting locals go who were not performing to the required standard in the training time alloted. The one time head of the cadet program (the first female captain at Royal Jordanian) did not suffer fools gladly and was a very harsh task master for the cadets. The current VP of the Emirates Training academy is also a very intelligent and experienced pilot and knows he can't let pilots through if they are not going to meet the required standard. Does that mean that some local pilots will not get a little preferential treatment? = no, it does happen but not to the extent that you seem to assume.
 
typhoonpilot said:
Not my decision to let someone go, only if they were meeting the standard or not. But, yes management had no problem letting locals go who were not performing to the required standard in the training time alloted. The one time head of the cadet program (the first female captain at Royal Jordanian) did not suffer fools gladly and was a very harsh task master for the cadets. The current VP of the Emirates Training academy is also a very intelligent and experienced pilot and knows he can't let pilots through if they are not going to meet the required standard. Does that mean that some local pilots will not get a little preferential treatment? = no, it does happen but not to the extent that you seem to assume.
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I am not assuming anything.

I am HIGHLY skeptical that if a well connected local wanted to be a pilot at an airline in the region they would have no problem being one. Completing training would be a foregone conclusion no matter how much training would be needed to get them through.
 
What in the holy f*** is going on here? I skip out for Christmas and come back to this. Are adults even flying this week?

As a side note, does anyone have any selfies of themselves raging down the last foot of a 14000 ft runway at flap blowup/overspeed speed while wondering why you aren't flying and doing nothing about it? I bet the look on your face is about like my 2 year old while he is actively pooping his pants but trying to pretend he isn't. WTF is wrong with people?
 
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