Emirates near disaster on takeoff

TWP said:
That sounds nice on paper until we realize that the company has an incentive to put the cheapest pilot possible into that seat. Then all this top quality stuff starts to be lip service to get people through since they’re doing this for staffing in the first place.
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My point exactly. Since the US carriers won't pay for the needed level of high quality training, then we are left with the alternative of a large quantity of experience. Even with those filters some bad apples slip through.

250hr USAF pilot = pretty good pilot
1500hr civilian pilot = pretty good pilot
200hr 141 puppy mill grad = liability in the cockpit
 
Here's the thing. The military has ZERO PROBLEM washing out a candidate at any phase of training.

Civilian puppy mills that are being paid either by the client or the airline have historically pushed, and prodded, and helped, and squeezed to get the weakest link through. If they truly held candidates to the highest standard and washed them out if they failed to perform I'd be much more likely to accept such a program.

Until then, hopefully the 1500 hours is MUCH MORE than just beating up the pattern.

In addition to primary instruction, I did instrument, commercial, and multi engine instruction,
I flew for fish and game while they were counting manatees,
I gave sightseeing rides,
When I met 135 mins I flew cancelled checks at night in all kinds of weather in questionable equipment,
Then I flew freight for an Airborne feeder...

ALL before my first flight as an FO on a 19 seat turboprop with no autopilot.

It made me a better pilot, and hopefully an asset to the Captains I was flying with, as opposed to a 250 hour liability hanging on flag the rudder trim tab and HOPING that nothing happens that wasn't one of the scripted scenarios I had seen in the sim.
 
USMCmech said:
My point exactly. Since the US carriers won't pay for the needed level of high quality training, then we are left with the alternative of a large quantity of experience.
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I would strongly argue that the 1,500 hours (well, not really since there are some cutouts for it) produces a pilot through a process that is more nuanced than simple hours. However, the time spent being a PIC and calling the shots will expose character flaws along the way that serve as good markers.

More so than the time, the 1,500 hours provides a consolidation and vetting period to see if there are any nasty ticks involved. Any pilot with these will weed themselves out in a way that cannot be done in any ab initio program.

"Buh, buh, the military does it!". I would argue that it is NOT the same. Military life means you are under almost constant scrutiny, and if you eff up, you're out. More so, there is vastly more, let's call it, "peer to peer mentoring", so that losers, jackholes, slackers and others that can't cut it are quickly identified and marshalled out of the program. That's never going to happen in the civilian world, which is why a 2-3 year long period is so critical. If someone is a tool or unable, that will eventually show up in their job history, simply because these kinds of people either show themselves the door, or are identified by employers as problem children.

Those kinds of problems will never show up in a scripted simulator program, no matter how much the wannabees want to think it so.
 
Forgetting to dial up the altitude selector, I can see myself doing. Forgetting to click the FD to TOGA before takeoff, I can see doing. But not rotating at VR because the FD is set to level? Take me out back and shoot me if I ever try to pull that
 
bLizZuE said:
Reading the MCP is part of our before takeoff checklist, but what surprises me the most is that four pilots in the cockpit missed it and then allowed all that other stuff to happen. Yikes.
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Why four pilots? Is everyone on the flight deck for departure?
 
Boris Badenov said:
Here, if you're double crewed, and at the C/A's discretion, one can sit it out. That is, for example, the R/O could be in the cockpit for takeoff and the FO2 for landing, or vice versa. Makes sense, imho, as the guy in the #4 seat can't see very much at all.
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Yea but your captains do the walk arounds. I mean the brown shorts are cool.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
They might in some places, but I usually only go into a handful of airports. Plus in the last two years we’re usually peeled off and just given vectors.
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In Europe ATC can authorize faster then 250 below 10 and they routinely do.

ATC can not do the same in the US. Hence why NovemberEcho is getting guys doing 280 assigned below 10.
 
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