The FAA making aviation safer one meaningless lawyer at a time

dispatchguy

dispatchguy

Well-Known Member
No more grace months for the jumpseat ride...

Recent Review. The Air Transportation Division (AFS-200) recently conducted a review of the pertinent regulations to determine whether the provisions of § 121.401(b) apply to aircraft dispatcher operating familiarization. Sections 121.427 and 121.433 specify the aircraft dispatcher recurrent training requirements. Neither §§ 121.427 nor 121.433 include operating familiarization as a recurrent training requirement. Operating familiarization is a qualification requirement specified in part 121 Subpart P, Aircraft Dispatcher Qualifications and Duty Time. Although the Final Rule preamble suggests operating familiarization is a recurrent training requirement, the pertinent regulations are clear that operating familiarization is not part of recurrent training. Therefore, the provisions of § 121.401(b) do not apply to operating familiarization.

 
They are also making MQ do limited overwater jumpseats every even year. It's gonna be a great time getting our dispatchers to MIA lol
 
So if I am reading this correctly, which is about 50/50 since Im no lawyer, the FAA is trying to take away grace months for the annual jumpseating?
 
GoingTurbo said:
So if I am reading this correctly, which is about 50/50 since Im no lawyer, the FAA is trying to take away grace months for the annual jumpseating?
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That’s correct. I heard about this a few days ago separately, on the plus side for those at airline it may not take effect this year.
 
Wonderlic said:
Unpopular opinion but they should do away with the jumpseat requirement all together.
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I'm going to wholly disagree as long as I need to share operational control, and have credibility with the crews. Last year I did my ride in the box due to the bug, was sorta meaningless as all I did was fill a square. The year before I did an around-the-world westbound to Paris/Munich via Tokyo, experiencing the inflexibility of Chinese ATC, the seemingly 100 NM long missed approach at NRT, and an ETOPS leg over the Pacific and the Atlantic. I am more conservative about altitude planning in China now. My crews in ops were asking all sorts of how-come questions, and yeah, seeing the Alps between Paris-Munich on a SKC kinda day was all kinds of cool.

Plus, I get the being fatigued part, I asked a crew a few rides ago, and asked what day it was - all they could tell me without looking at their phones it was day 7 of a 14 day (no, I didnt stay with them for the whole 14 day, their next leg after me was India), and don't eat the Captain's crew meal.

You're not going to "get" that in a sim. If the FAA were to remove JSing altogether, then I don't need to be a dispatcher anymore. I do this to work international ops, and JS internationally. You will lose experience on the desk, take away jumpseating and you're nothing but a button clicker (unless you're at AA and have the JR Mask).
 
Wonderlic said:
Unpopular opinion but they should do away with the jumpseat requirement all together.
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99% of pilots have no clue what a dispatcher does. If anything, the requirement should be extended to include pilots needing to sit for a full shift in dispatch. The Gee Whiz tours and short visits a small number of pilots get are basically worthless. Like with dispatchers on the flight deck, pilots should have some familiarity with what dispatchers are doing.
 
Flagship_dxer said:
99% of pilots have no clue what a dispatcher does. If anything, the requirement should be extended to include pilots needing to sit for a full shift in dispatch. The Gee Whiz tours and short visits a small number of pilots get are basically worthless. Like with dispatchers on the flight deck, pilots should have some familiarity with what dispatchers are doing.
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100%
 
Flagship_dxer said:
99% of pilots have no clue what a dispatcher does. If anything, the requirement should be extended to include pilots needing to sit for a full shift in dispatch. The Gee Whiz tours and short visits a small number of pilots get are basically worthless. Like with dispatchers on the flight deck, pilots should have some familiarity with what dispatchers are doing.
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Oh I’m all for that! Especially during the summertime when I’ve had to play “I have a secret” when we’re planned through a line of weather, minimal fuel to an airport everyone is presently in holding for.

I’m a strong believer in dispatchers seeing a couple flights and pilots seeing a dispatch shift, especially during IROPS.
 
dispatchguy said:
I'm going to wholly disagree as long as I need to share operational control, and have credibility with the crews. Last year I did my ride in the box due to the bug, was sorta meaningless as all I did was fill a square. The year before I did an around-the-world westbound to Paris/Munich via Tokyo, experiencing the inflexibility of Chinese ATC, the seemingly 100 NM long missed approach at NRT, and an ETOPS leg over the Pacific and the Atlantic. I am more conservative about altitude planning in China now. My crews in ops were asking all sorts of how-come questions, and yeah, seeing the Alps between Paris-Munich on a SKC kinda day was all kinds of cool.

Plus, I get the being fatigued part, I asked a crew a few rides ago, and asked what day it was - all they could tell me without looking at their phones it was day 7 of a 14 day (no, I didnt stay with them for the whole 14 day, their next leg after me was India), and don't eat the Captain's crew meal.

You're not going to "get" that in a sim. If the FAA were to remove JSing altogether, then I don't need to be a dispatcher anymore. I do this to work international ops, and JS internationally. You will lose experience on the desk, take away jumpseating and you're nothing but a button clicker (unless you're at AA and have the JR Mask).
Click to expand...
Since leaving the regional world my eyes have really been opened on what it feels like to be a pilot after doing a fam ride that encompasses several days with 18-24 hour overnights. I can understand crew fatigue now. Life on road starts to suck after the 3rd crappy hotel.
 
Derg said:
Oh I’m all for that! Especially during the summertime when I’ve had to play “I have a secret” when we’re planned through a line of weather, minimal fuel to an airport everyone is presently in holding for.

I’m a strong believer in dispatchers seeing a couple flights and pilots seeing a dispatch shift, especially during IROPS.
Click to expand...

This. I did my FAM ride a few days ago and learned that most pilots think dispatchers have a maximum of 5-7 flights to plan + watch. I was equally shocked as the crew was when I told them that usually it's 20-25 to plan and 20-25 to watch (on a domestic desk of course)
 
Flagship_dxer said:
99% of pilots have no clue what a dispatcher does. If anything, the requirement should be extended to include pilots needing to sit for a full shift in dispatch. The Gee Whiz tours and short visits a small number of pilots get are basically worthless. Like with dispatchers on the flight deck, pilots should have some familiarity with what dispatchers are doing.
Click to expand...

As a pilot, I'd love that. In fact, any Atlas dispatchers mind if I contact you next time I have a long time in CVG so I can come check it out?
 
who'swho said:
Since leaving the regional world my eyes have really been opened on what it feels like to be a pilot after doing a fam ride that encompasses several days with 18-24 hour overnights. I can understand crew fatigue now. Life on road starts to suck after the 3rd crappy hotel.
Click to expand...

Long haul with 24 hour overnights are the absolute worst. Show up absolutely wrecked, but know that if you go to sleep right away you're only screwing over future you when it's time to go back to work.
 
When I was at AWI a long time ago (during the Uncle Lar timeframe), CAs in their initial upgrade had to come sit in DX for a day as a part of our CRM/DRM. The day it was my turn, I had one CA sit with me when I was getting my ass handed to me with severe IROPS on the DEN 328 desk.

We also had captains (the old lifer regional crusty dudes) who had no use for their DX, and would only speak with the coordinator. One day I had Captain Happy on a flight I worked, and calls me all bent out of shape on the radio because I missed a required alternate. He had a deep voice which was unmistakeable on the radio. I had JS'ed with him once and it was clear he had no use for me at all, even the F/O got the cold shoulder from this guy.

"Captain, I'd agree with you if you were getting there after 01Z, you're getting there at 21Z, so my read is we're good."

Radio silence... :) he was actually easier to work with after that...
 
Derg said:
Oh I’m all for that! Especially during the summertime when I’ve had to play “I have a secret” when we’re planned through a line of weather, minimal fuel to an airport everyone is presently in holding for.

I’m a strong believer in dispatchers seeing a couple flights and pilots seeing a dispatch shift, especially during IROPS.
Click to expand...

If jumpseat grace months go away for dispatchers, dispatchers with base months in months like March, April, October and November with normally favorable weather will almost never get a chance to see an IROPS day on their jumpseat ride.
 
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