Pilot Pete leaving Delta...

[ChasenSFO]

Very few of us would be here if that wasn’t the case. It’s not exactly a job you accidentally fall into.

Well, I'd say more than you think. I am sure we both know plenty of people who flew just because it was cool and never cared about the airlines or any of that but then eventually ended up there for the money/QOL with zero interest in the operation/prestige. Also know a handful active military pilots who never even considered flying but after serving then after graduating college were invited to come back for OCS and try to get into UPT since the Air Force was desperate. Now those guys all want to eventually fly for FedEx, UPS and the big 3 after having previously wanted careers with nothing to do with aviation and could care less about airplanes, though of course they think flying is fun. Must be a lot more guys like that than just the few I happen to know.

Everything becomes a job, no matter the passion. That’s not necessarily a positive or negative thing, it just is.

Eventually that seems to be the case, though I never got there in 6 years in the ramp tower, perhaps another 10+ would have done it. The subject was about why one would want to work for a specific airline, so I meant more along the lines of the passion that motivates one for that goal more so than that passion not fading in a 30+ year career. I don't imagine I would lose the passion before actually being in a position to interview at potential dream jobs, it's another story after decades on the road.

 

[ASpilot2be]

Everything becomes a job, no matter the passion. That’s not necessarily a positive or negative thing, it just is.

Maybe. Or the passion just shifts. Nowadays I have no desire to even tough GA. But holy crap do I get a sense of satisfaction from landing 186 passengers at 140 knots. I get such a sense of accomplishment. But to some people that does get old.

 

[Maximilian_Jenius]

My dad was at UA when I was growing up (before leaving aviation after 9/11 and forever after thinking the airline pilot profession is for the birds), that's who I always traveled on, and then that's the airline I worked with doing SkyWest CS\RAMP and then working the ramp tower in their "shuttle" alley at SFO before going on to the bigger ramp tower and working with United ops helping to run their international operation and help solve all their issues, so that's where I want to fly. Isn't that extremely common? I know plenty of people who grew up with parents at an airline and then wanted to go there. They still have a massive SFO base, they still fly all over the Pacific, some of the 777s, 767s and A320s I flew on as a little kid in the 90s are still there, close enough for me. Last time I went to HNL on a UA 753, the captain announced that it was his first flight ever with his son, who grew up in HNL where the family was from, and that his son would be flying. It was awesome, how is that not appealing?

Dreams are dreams, let people have them. To some of us it's a passion and not just a job we want to do.

Well, I'd say more than you think. I am sure we both know plenty of people who flew just because it was cool and never cared about the airlines or any of that but then eventually ended up there for the money/QOL with zero interest in the operation/prestige. Also know a handful active military pilots who never even considered flying but after serving then after graduating college were invited to come back for OCS and try to get into UPT since the Air Force was desperate. Now those guys all want to eventually fly for FedEx, UPS and the big 3 after having previously wanted careers with nothing to do with aviation and could care less about airplanes, though of course they think flying is fun. Must be a lot more guys like that than just the few I happen to know.


Eventually that seems to be the case, though I never got there in 6 years in the ramp tower, perhaps another 10+ would have done it. The subject was about why one would want to work for a specific airline, so I meant more along the lines of the passion that motivates one for that goal more so than that passion not fading in a 30+ year career. I don't imagine I would lose the passion before actually being in a position to interview at potential dream jobs, it's another story after decades on the road.

Hurry up, bro! Chose one already. ATC, or airline pilot and get started. Time waits for no one. Ask me how I know. Neither does seniority. Crack that whip!

 

[ChasenSFO]

Hurry up, bro! Chose one already. ATC, or airline pilot and get started. Time waits for no one. Ask me how I know. Neither does seniority. Crack that whip!

I mean, in 1.5 months I passed every written needed for the IFR-CFII and I'm still in the FAA pool so...doing what I can. Just to take the tests and get current and fly several times per month ate up all my money (like literally all of it), so...saving up to then take a $10k loan from friends and should be able to get the IFR/Comm/CFI/CFII checkrides done with 20ish hours of flying dedicated to those tasks since I already have over 250 hours and plenty of night/XC.

 

[Maximilian_Jenius]

I mean, in 1.5 months I passed every written needed for the IFR-CFII and I'm still in the FAA pool so...doing what I can. Just to take the tests and get current and fly several times per month ate up all my money (like literally all of it), so...saving up to then take a $10k loan from friends and should be able to get the IFR/Comm/CFI/CFII checkrides done with 20ish hours of flying dedicated to those tasks since I already have over 250 hours and plenty of night/XC.

Sounds similar to what I was doing. Taking small bites of the pie, instead of a mouthful. I don't want to minimize your recent successes, so don't take it as that. Everyone's situation of course is different. But for me, in my case only continuing to take those small bites wasn't helping getting me to advance in my ambitions and get to cross the finishline. I had to say f-k it and go balls to the wall. Again every situation is different, my determining factors were age. I just want to encourage you and see you succeed in your aviation goals, the same as many here have also championed me as well. Time moves quick. Its eats everything.

 

[tcco94]

I was reading the most recent edition of the ALPA magazine, and there was a letter from a Spirit pilot that got asked what he did wrong to get hired there.

I think we're back to being looked down on. But I will just laugh my way to the bank as I retire in the top 20 here at the zoo.

What's funny to me is people who won't apply to a LCC because they need to fly a heavy across the pond. Then go through 2 downturns at a regional and realize they will probably be staying for life. While said person at LCC clears 200k a year and getting great schedules.

I mean flying across the pond or flying a heavy sure is a dream. But wouldn't you rather be doing that in first class on your way to vacation with a very healthy bank account? That sounds like a better dream to me.

 

[CFI A&P]

Yet another pilot who lied during an interview.

Just curious how you know this, were you in the room or did you review his application at said airline?

 

[ChasenSFO]

Sounds similar to what I was doing. Taking small bites of the pie, instead of a mouthful. I don't want to minimize your recent successes, so don't take it as that. Everyone's situation of course is different. But for me, in my case only continuing to take those small bites wasn't helping getting me to advance in my ambitions and get to cross the finishline. I had to say f-k it and go balls to the wall. Again every situation is different, my determining factors were age. I just want to encourage you and see you succeed in your aviation goals, the same as many here have also championed me as well. Time moves quick. Its eats everything.

I mean, this is balls to the wall lol how much faster can I try and do this without starving to death or moving back into my parents house? LOL. If I get my ratings done this year, that's pretty damned fast considering I started actually training to finish like 2 months ago...

What's funny to me is people who won't apply to a LCC because they need to fly a heavy across the pond. Then go through 2 downturns at a regional and realize they will probably be staying for life. While said person at LCC clears 200k a year and getting great schedules.

I mean flying across the pond or flying a heavy sure is a dream. But wouldn't you rather be doing that in first class on your way to vacation with a very healthy bank account? That sounds like a better dream to me.

You'd think that even if a pilot had the goal of a major, they'd jump to an LCC first chance they got in lieu of getting senior at a regional that can lose it's flying with the stroke of a pen.

 

[Kingairer]

What's funny to me is people who won't apply to a LCC because they need to fly a heavy across the pond. Then go through 2 downturns at a regional and realize they will probably be staying for life. While said person at LCC clears 200k a year and getting great schedules.

I mean flying across the pond or flying a heavy sure is a dream. But wouldn't you rather be doing that in first class on your way to vacation with a very healthy bank account? That sounds like a better dream to me.

Life isnt always that simple. I dont advocate for staying at a regional, but pulling up roots where you have a stable family life to start over a the bottom of an LCC when it isnt your end goal, meh. I get it. Maybe they have kids at home? Spousal inputs? If you feel like youll be at a your goal carrier within a year or so anyways, why take the risk of starting over somewhere and jumping through the new hire hoops twice. I dont advocate for this route, but it isnt always so cut and dry.

 

[Richman]

Good for him living his dream. Wonder how long he's been at DL? Hopefully the lateral change won't affect his career seniority.

There is a window of age and longevity where you can make this change and not have it blow up on you. Essentially, you have to be young, with not a lot of longevity at your current carrier, and you have to catch the wave just right from where you’re leaving to where you’re going.

I’d say that under 35 with maybe 3 years longevity or less, at that’s at the very outside.

You need to hope you were going from a relatively stagnant carrier to one where you can ride a little bit of a wave. At the very least par. If you went the other way, then yea, you messed up.

The only reason I ever saw anyone making this jump is because of domiciles. If they have one where you want to be, that has a huge, lasting effect on QOL and finances.

That all said, you need to be extremely careful sharpshooting, because it’s really easy to blow your foot off. I knew one guy who left Northernjets for UPS during the bad times because he wanted to live in KY. It looked like a much better deal, so trading in the 12 years he’d already racked up looked like a no brainer.

They promptly forced him to ANC, then furloughed him, and the resulting drama caused a divorce.

Bases open and close, airplanes/flying come and go. Contracts wax and wane. If you’re going to jump, better make sure.

 

[tcco94]

Life isnt always that simple. I dont advocate for staying at a regional, but pulling up roots where you have a stable family life to start over a the bottom of an LCC when it isnt your end goal, meh. I get it. Maybe they have kids at home? Spousal inputs? If you feel like youll be at a your goal carrier within a year or so anyways, why take the risk of starting over somewhere and jumping through the new hire hoops twice. I dont advocate for this route, but it isnt always so cut and dry.

Well I wasn't really talking about that person. More the person who complains they got shafted but also 10 years ago had an app with United, Delta and AA and were too good for Spirit, Frontier, Jetblue...etc...

There's a lot of reasons for routes to take in this industry I completely get it and respect it. But I think that was more off topic from our point.

 

[tcco94]

You'd think that even if a pilot had the goal of a major, they'd jump to an LCC first chance they got in lieu of getting senior at a regional that can lose it's flying with the stroke of a pen.

And my new hire class had 3 regional pilots and 12 pilots from LCC/majors which included Spirit, Alaska, AA, SWA, and jetblue...

But yeah, moving up is such a bad look to the legacies. The on the line rumors from people at regionals on how to get hired and what not to do is so funny to me. I totally get getting TPIC at a regional, but at some point I think the career progression helps you more than just building up TPIC. Also it can make sense to pull pilots from competitors vs a regional (I think).

 

[MikeD]

UAL has been low of the top 3, ever since ALifeAloft retired from there.

 

[FXMXC]

Good for him living his dream. Wonder how long he's been at DL? Hopefully the lateral change won't affect his career seniority.

Think he has been there since early 2018. Funny tho he has been waiting to put on a UAL uniform everyone knows DL has the best uniforms in the business. Double breasted sub commander look can't beat it.

 

[Skåning]

Yeah, anybody who think NK, B6, and F9 aren’t great places to land either has a wild lack of attention to reality

Yeah because they dont have to fly the 737 max! Lucky bastages

 

[Skåning]

Life isnt always that simple. I dont advocate for staying at a regional, but pulling up roots where you have a stable family life to start over a the bottom of an LCC when it isnt your end goal, meh. I get it. Maybe they have kids at home? Spousal inputs? If you feel like youll be at a your goal carrier within a year or so anyways, why take the risk of starting over somewhere and jumping through the new hire hoops twice.

I know many guys at ExpressJet who were waiting around for their dream job and then they went from being picky to not having a job. The same thing for lots of Compass guys. Make the sacrifice and get out of the regionals to anywhere you can that has the paint match the paycheck. You really are at the mercy of the corporate overloads when you do someone else's flying. Your family should know it's gonna require a little flexibility on their part to make the dream happen, because when the music stops you better have a chair.

 

[Kingairer]

I know many guys at ExpressJet who were waiting around for their dream job and then they went from being picky to not having a job. The same thing for lots of Compass guys. Make the sacrifice and get out of the regionals to anywhere you can that has the paint match the paycheck. You really are at the mercy of the corporate overloads when you do someone else's flying. Your family should know it's gonna require a little flexibility on their part to make the dream happen, because when the music stops you better have a chair.

Its all a gamble. I know there is some people who have been around CHQ since the 80s and have spent decades at the top ranks there. Sure thats an all-star for a Single A baseball team, but for some thats all they want and for them its worked out pretty well for them. Im sure there are some at Skywest who have similar story. There are also some that were at Comair that had similar stories until they didnt.

 

[Screaming_Emu]

I know many guys at ExpressJet who were waiting around for their dream job and then they went from being picky to not having a job. The same thing for lots of Compass guys. Make the sacrifice and get out of the regionals to anywhere you can that has the paint match the paycheck. You really are at the mercy of the corporate overloads when you do someone else's flying. Your family should know it's gonna require a little flexibility on their part to make the dream happen, because when the music stops you better have a chair.

We have a lot of compass refugees at Air Beachball. It’s been nice flying with a younger group of really sharp pilots. They have made my first month in the left seat super easy. It’s kind of depressing that they’ll only be here a short while since Atlas shows no interest in becoming a career destination.

 

[Skåning]

Its all a gamble. I know there is some people who have been around CHQ since the 80s and have spent decades at the top ranks there.

At XJT I flew with geezers who had been with Rocky Mountain and Bar Harbor, like talk about ancient. They were close to retirement anyway, it's the guys who were 45-60 years old that will have a tough time starting over at the bottom of Commutair or whatever hole is hiring. Having a good QOL at a regional and getting comfortable is all fine...until it isnt. When you're just a staffing agency can you say with much certainty the company will be around for the next 30 years? At least at a big boy company you can always (when things are better) go take your type to an expat gig.

 

[nibake]

Well, I'd say more than you think. I am sure we both know plenty of people who flew just because it was cool and never cared about the airlines or any of that but then eventually ended up there for the money/QOL with zero interest in the operation/prestige.

This was/is me. I wouldn't say "zero" interest, but most certainly this is a job way before anything else.

I’d say that under 35 with maybe 3 years longevity or less, at that’s at the very outside.

True, but what about the shop that you work at? This a big deal. I will get to that below.

But yeah, moving up is such a bad look to the legacies.

I don't know if I'm reading this right. Are you saying moving up the seniority list at the regional? I.e. homesteading?


This thread is awful similar to what has been going through my head lately. When I came to MN's own sun-on-the-tail airline, I didn't have the times to be competitive at any big name outfit, so it didn't matter. Then the virus and no hiring, so it didn't matter. Now, suddenly, that is all starting to change. And I have to start asking the hard questions that I didn't ask before. Waiting a year and a half+ to "take a look" at a new contract sounds less appealing. Compounding my dilemma is that I really haven't been able to decide where I want to live.

So here I sit with industry-lagging pay and work rules, yet I'm riding a wave to perfection.