Paying your dues???
- Thread starter Maximilian_Jenius
- Start date
CFI A&P
Exploring the world one toilet at a time.
I share the same philosophy for riding motorcycles before driving cars. People would drive much differently if they started out on two wheels.
Reading this thread is somewhat amusing. As probably the one guy who has worked in more facets of aviation than anyone else here, from civil to military to CFI to 135 to 121, both fixed wing and rotor wing and CFI in both; I’m in the camp of “it depends” and “nether is better than the other”.
So far as CFI or not route, I did both when I started out. Part time CFI while also flying traffic watch. Was good, but at the time I lacked experience, not being significantly more experienced than the people I was teaching. I personally have never liked the SERGRAD or FAIP model, having experienced that in the military later. Was a good way to build time and experience, but I wasn’t able to teach from a high level of experience back to the student, being not very experience myself at this time.
Moved up to single engine part 135 cargo, VFR then IFR, while still instructing part time. Was able to slowly start bringing more background of experience to the table to pass on.
Moved up to multi engine and turbine part 135 cargo, while still part time instructing, being able to bring even more quality of instruction, although still limited to certain areas of experience, but still better and improved experiences both for myself as well as to pass along.
Went military, tactical jet fighters. Brought past experience to the training which when applied properly and in the right areas, while not conflicting with the military way of aviation training and learning, paid off well and added to the SA bag of tricks. Did part time CFI again post-initial training, and began to feel that I was having more and more quality and wider range of experience to give back to students.
Flew tactical jets for a decade including combat, in some high tech stuff in high performance flight regimes being a military IP in the process. Transitioned to rotary wing military, and to rotary wing civil, as an IP and CFI also. Was still a part time CFI on the side, mainly doing IPCs and BFRs and such, but feeling much more comfortable in what I was giving back.
Do the 121 thing part time, flying both seats of a 737. Very good experience for both the type of flying, although 121 flying itself is boring as hell......but, it’s supposed to be. Not the flying I enjoy, but a good experience to have and one that helps with CFIing in terms of experience and instruction to pass on to students.
Now, as rotor wing pilot, CFI and line check pilot; I look back on instructing in my early days, and it was a great experience, though now I’m able to give back far more to students than I was able to then.
But the point is, it’s not really a this or that, there’s nothing precluding doing both CFI and regular flying. Both are good ways to learn and develop oneself, and with CFI at least begin the process of teaching early on with what you know, even though with low experience. But, if there is no desire to teach, that’s fine too....there’s no requirement to be a CFI as a prerequisite to anything besides CFI jobs; it’s a nice to have, but not necessarily a need to have. And it’s not for everyone. Though I personally think it’s a good experience, one has to want to do it.
So far as CFI or not route, I did both when I started out. Part time CFI while also flying traffic watch. Was good, but at the time I lacked experience, not being significantly more experienced than the people I was teaching. I personally have never liked the SERGRAD or FAIP model, having experienced that in the military later. Was a good way to build time and experience, but I wasn’t able to teach from a high level of experience back to the student, being not very experience myself at this time.
Moved up to single engine part 135 cargo, VFR then IFR, while still instructing part time. Was able to slowly start bringing more background of experience to the table to pass on.
Moved up to multi engine and turbine part 135 cargo, while still part time instructing, being able to bring even more quality of instruction, although still limited to certain areas of experience, but still better and improved experiences both for myself as well as to pass along.
Went military, tactical jet fighters. Brought past experience to the training which when applied properly and in the right areas, while not conflicting with the military way of aviation training and learning, paid off well and added to the SA bag of tricks. Did part time CFI again post-initial training, and began to feel that I was having more and more quality and wider range of experience to give back to students.
Flew tactical jets for a decade including combat, in some high tech stuff in high performance flight regimes being a military IP in the process. Transitioned to rotary wing military, and to rotary wing civil, as an IP and CFI also. Was still a part time CFI on the side, mainly doing IPCs and BFRs and such, but feeling much more comfortable in what I was giving back.
Do the 121 thing part time, flying both seats of a 737. Very good experience for both the type of flying, although 121 flying itself is boring as hell......but, it’s supposed to be. Not the flying I enjoy, but a good experience to have and one that helps with CFIing in terms of experience and instruction to pass on to students.
Now, as rotor wing pilot, CFI and line check pilot; I look back on instructing in my early days, and it was a great experience, though now I’m able to give back far more to students than I was able to then.
But the point is, it’s not really a this or that, there’s nothing precluding doing both CFI and regular flying. Both are good ways to learn and develop oneself, and with CFI at least begin the process of teaching early on with what you know, even though with low experience. But, if there is no desire to teach, that’s fine too....there’s no requirement to be a CFI as a prerequisite to anything besides CFI jobs; it’s a nice to have, but not necessarily a need to have. And it’s not for everyone. Though I personally think it’s a good experience, one has to want to do it.
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drunkenbeagle
Gang Member
Teaching a student to solo safely, and have the correct endorsements doesn't require knowing everything about aviation. For general aviation flying, having an instructor of any experience makes the flight safer than a GA flight with no instructor there. We have numbers to back that up. Insurance companies require dual instruction, and when they care about how experienced the CFI is, they require it. For the most part, any CFI is acceptable to them. Again, they have the numbers to back that up.
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
Kinda sounds like the “skip the regionals” threads.
CFIT99
I'm probably commenting ironically...
Very much so.....la sigh
roundout
VNAV monitor
You misspelled "manual transmission"
knot4u
Repeat Offender
I agree. I started riding dirt bikes at 12, by the time I was getting ready for my drivers license at 16 the driving part was easy, but I still needed to learn all of the rules of the road (legal and etiquette). I know not everyone is able to do what I did, but I wish they were.
Flyinthrew
Well-Known Member
How dare you try to bring this thread on topic...the nerve of some people.
100-120 hours per month would be mighty tasty if I was hungry for flight time, but you have to figure out how you're going to make a living for that 8-10 months you're doing that AND come up with your 25 hours of multi time (I'm pretty sure regional hiring mins are going to be 2019 vintage by next year). Also, I think the Martinaires and Empires of the country are going to start emptying out real soon as the hiring pipeline gets unsnarled if you care to take your experience over there and more than double your pay flying the Caravan.
USMCmech
Well-Known Member
But, but I went from a 141 school -> 121 regional -> 121 mainline. C-172, PA-44, CRJ, A320 are the only types in my logbook. Now I'm a big time airline captain, so you need to listen to what I have to say.
Seriously a broad variety of experience (doubtful I'll catch up to MikeD) is the best mark of a professional who is a master of their craft. Wether we are talking about pilot, musicians, doctors, or athletes, if you want to call yourself a pro you had better be able to fly anything, play any instrument, ect.
Old Pete
Cockpit Authoritarian
Why would you dismiss the advice of someone who did what the OP asked? (ie. paraphrasing )"What's the most direct path from where I am to where I want to be?" that being said I remember when people were Knocking people who bannered, jumped, or god forbid blimped. for the most part it was not a "dead" end, but a detour. and a well earned one.But, but I went from a 141 school -> 121 regional -> 121 mainline. C-172, PA-44, CRJ, A320 are the only types in my logbook. Now I'm a big time airline captain, so you need to listen to what I have to say.
Seriously a broad variety of experience (doubtful I'll catch up to MikeD) is the best mark of a professional who is a master of their craft. Wether we are talking about pilot, musicians, doctors, or athletes, if you want to call yourself a pro you had better be able to fly anything, play any instrument, ect.
USMCmech
Well-Known Member
There are a handful of guys who made it to the airlines direct from flight school and think they are an expert in everything having to do with aviation. They may be an expert in 121 flying, but know nothing outside the airline bubble. These are usually the guys who consider single engine or piston IFR flying the same category as BASE jumping, helicopters as dark magic, and homebuilt airplanes as deathtraps. These are the kind of airline pilots who trash all GA flying as amateur hour (never mind that around 1/4 of GA pilots are airline pros flying in their off time).
I have many friends who went 141 D-> 121 who are wonderful pilots and human beings. Some guys just want to fly for work and spend their time off on their other hobbies and that's fine. This isn't a knock on them, but if you only know how to play guitar you don't get to call yourself an expert musician.
From the other extreme of the spectrum, Sean Tucker is an amazing aerobatic pilot but doesn't have his instrument rating. He's an expert in his bubble but a total amateur outside of it. I have a ton of experience with airplanes, but as a helicopter pilot I have a LOT to learn.
There is so much to learn in this industry and I consider the desire to learn the mark of a true professional. I'm constantly looking for new challenges in this business to expand my knowledge and challenge myself. The guys (and gals) that I respect the most have a wide variety of experience that they can draw from, humility to understand what they don't know, and the character to mentor the next generation.
I've got a discovery flight in an auto-gyro scheduled for next week. Absolutely zero practical utility, but they look like fun and I've always wondered how they work. 15 hours of dual and I'll have my sport pilot cert.
alaskadrifter
Landing gear operator
I stopped reading a bunch of posts back (except MikeD, he’s always got something worthwhile to say). I did the Caravan SIC thing, starting pay was $60/day. It was painful and the only reason I could make it work was because I was still fishing, but I learned a lot. Especially doing hard IFR flying day in and day out. It was a good way to get started, especially in Alaska, without being thrown to the wolves.
KLB
Well-Known Member
Your situation was unique due to it being in Alaska. I can imagine the flight instructions scene not being the hottest up there.
@Maximilian_Jenius
Whatever direction you decide to go...get moving now and be urgent about it.
djh1007
Flying Squirrel Trainee
So much this. I had all the CFI/AGI certs and thought I would love it. But, I didn't. The 600 hours and 1.5 years of CFI taught me a ton about decision making, how to react when things go wrong, and how far to let people go before you step in and save the day.
I've been in the left seat of two large cabin jets and I'm so glad I was a CFI. Large cabin jets are poor training platforms, but I've had to use all of my CFI skills on almost a daily basis. I'm not sure how I'd know how far behind the airplane to let an FO get otherwise.
A GIV at 12 miles, 8,000 feet, 250 knots and clean? Sure, keep going for another minute or two, then maybe I'll suggest flaps and a descent on the visual.
Crockrocket94
Well-Known Member
Lol. Thats a bit extreme.
Took me a while to get used to dumping a 73 in after flying a Falcon 50 for a few years. Apparently I didn't realize how easy it was to fly the Falcon, you could pretty much make it do what you needed....
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
That's the plan. Scheduling my multi now for Aug, Sept or Oct. Depending on DPE availability. I'm not applying to anything till after I get that new rating. For money reasons and also I think that I will be a bit more competitive with a AMEL add-on and a high performance and complex cert. Than I am currently with just an ASEL.