Bombardier Wins

The A321 cannot perform the mission of the 797. Plus a lot of airlines are actually pushing Boeing for a clean sheet design, and aren't too interested in the 737-10.


The A321LR will cover some 797 missions, and a further stretch + range increase will eat even more into that program. Maybe not 100% of all missions, but it could siphon off sales. This makes the economics of a clean-sheet very difficult for Boeing - it needs to sell enough models to recoup the cost of development and cash build costs. For reference, the 787 still hasn't recouped its development costs and it's really not close. The program just started breaking even on a cash production basis in the last few years. I think this is part of what's taken Boeing so long to launch/offer - the business case is not 100% sound, and there's no engine in the market that could support the program at this time. I think they can and will get there eventually, but it's going to be challenging.

The MAX 10 and 797 serve very different markets, so I don't think there's a whole lot of correlation between airlines asking for 797 and the MAX 10. The MAX 10, as designed right now, would probably eat the 797's lunch head-to-head on a domestic USA route. The MAX 10 was launched to defend against short-haul, domestic A321neo sales, where the MAX 9 was losing to the A321neo in by a clear margin. I also suspect the range of the NMA/797 is not where you expect it to be, but I could be wrong here. My assumption only.
 
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The A321LR will cover some 797 missions, and a further stretch + range increase will eat even more into that program. Maybe not 100% of all missions, but it could siphon off sales. This makes the economics of a clean-sheet very difficult for Boeing - it needs to sell enough models to recoup the cost of development and cash build costs. For reference, the 787 still hasn't recouped its development costs and it's really not close. The program just started breaking even on a cash production basis in the last few years. I think this is part of what's taken Boeing so long to launch/offer - the business case is not 100% sound, and there's no engine in the market that could support the program at this time. I think they can and will get there eventually, but it's going to be challenging.

The MAX 10 and 797 serve very different markets, so I don't think there's a whole lot of correlation between airlines asking for 797 and the MAX 10. The MAX 10, as designed right now, would probably eat the 797's lunch head-to-head on a domestic USA route. The MAX 10 was launched to defend against short-haul, domestic A321neo sales, where the MAX 9 was losing in by a clear margin. I also suspect the range of the NMA/797 is not where you expect it to be, but I could be wrong here. My assumption only.

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I believe that the 787 program is profitable now.
 

I believe that the 787 program is profitable now.[/QUOTE]

Yep, as noted. However they still have some $25B+ of deferred development/production costs that need to be recouped that is preventing the whole program from being breakeven, and far from it.
 
I'm not your copilot.

I’m alpha. Don’t make me re-establish alpha because you willl find yourself humiliated and your halls shall reek of my kimchi-scented fecal material.

DO NOT TEST ME, STIGGY!
 
I’m alpha. Don’t make me re-establish alpha because you willl find yourself humiliated and your halls shall reek of my kimchi-scented fecal material.

DO NOT TEST ME, STIGGY!
I've seen where you came from.....just recently actually.
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When everything was working, it performed OK. But looking back, it was really a hunk of junk.

To be fair the Airbus and Boeing equipment is light years ahead of the commuter stuff in quality. They just don't break and when they do it's typically a fairly easy fix.
 
To be fair the Airbus and Boeing equipment is light years ahead of the commuter stuff in quality. They just don't break and when they do it's typically a fairly easy fix.

This isn't really true. For the CRJ/145, yes probably. For the 175/195/C Series... I'd say the build quality is the same as A/B.
 
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