The dark side of the pilot shortage.

[Cptnchia]

Where are you getting your numbers from? I can find neither that matches what you say.

My sources.
https://www.google.com/flights/#search;f=GEG;t=ATL;d=2018-01-17;r=2018-01-21;mc=d
https://www.southwest.com/flight/shortcut/select-flight.html?fromShowItinerary=1&int=

Here it is directly from Delta's website.
https://www.delta.com/air-shopping/flexDates.action

Delta's lowest fare is $419 and $392 consistently for the month of Jan.
Southwests lowest fare is $207 and $185 consistently for the month of Jan.

Damn that empirical data again.
Where are you seeing Delta GEG to ATL for $185.

Fly Delta app for Jan 16, 2018

 

[av8tr1]

Well, that's a horrible way to look at it. People should be treated like people, not like cattle, regardless of their income. My higher income should afford me a bigger seat, a better meal, etc., but it shouldn't be required in order for someone to have the basic dignity of not being herded onto an airplane like cattle.

So how is boarding a Delta airplane any different from a Southwest flight. Both still have groups of people walking down a jet bridge to the door of the airplane. 1st class usually boards 1st on Delta but they still walk down the same jet bridge as the Southwest folks. I've never felt like cattle walking onto either aircraft. But the Delta FAs have sure made me feel like cattle when I am not in uniform.

We've been over this. It's not a matter of cost. Delta beats Southwest like a rented mule in Atlanta, because Southwest can't beat their prices consistently, even with their crappy service and product.
Since you're so wowed by anecdotes, here's one. I picked a city pair I frequently fly, ATL-LAS, and picked a random day. In this case, the 18th of this month. Delta has coach tickets available on both a 737-900 and an A321 for $118. Your beloved Southwest? Their cheapest ticket is $155.
Southworst blows.

Yep you got me there. I was comparing SW 1 way to Delta round trip. I was wrong. My apologies.

How many businesses do you own and run again?

I sold my first software company Paradigm Shift for a little over 3 million. I didn't see all of that. It was broken up amongst my investors and other partners but I started the company in my kitchen in Orlando back in the early 90s. We made video games and flight simulators. Most of our video games were LBE (Location based entertainment). We did some work on the MechWarrior series games and some of the Interactive Magic games.

My second company Keyva was making a little over $440,000 in revenue a month at our peak. I had buyout offers from a number of large companies that I stupidly turned down that were many multiples of 7 figures. We were on track to go public and were just starting our application when the dam broke on Dot.bombs. We rode the Dot.bomb parade into the ground when we lost our largest customer overnight losing about 70% of our customer base in one day. That one I started in my Northern VA basement after I cashed out my AOL stock options. We made a AOL type software package for ISPs to compete with AOL. We offered both the back end provisioning/hosting/billing systems along with online content as well as the dial up and branded browser interface for the consumer.

There were others but those were the two big ones. How about you? Ever started a company from your kitchen table that made a 7 figure profit.

 

[Roger Roger]

Y’all do know that with as smart as the reservation systems are now two different people with two different histories of ticket purchasing and two different IP addresses aren’t necessarily going to see the same ticket prices right?

 

[JDean3204]

I stayed at a Motel 6 last night...

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

So how is boarding a Delta airplane any different from a Southwest flight.

Assigned seating. Pretty simple. I want an aisle seat, so I book one. I can show up at the gate at the end of boarding and get the seat I wanted. I don’t have to show up hours early and then fight my way through the horde to get it.

I sold my first software company Paradigm Shift for a little over 3 million. I didn't see all of that. It was broken up amongst my investors and other partners but I started the company in my kitchen in Orlando back in the early 90s. We made video games and flight simulators. Most of our video games were LBE (Location based entertainment). We did some work on the MechWarrior series games and some of the Interactive Magic games.

My second company Keyva was making a little over $440,000 in revenue a month at our peak. I had buyout offers from a number of large companies that I stupidly turned down that were many multiples of 7 figures. We were on track to go public and were just starting our application when the dam broke on Dot.bombs. We rode the Dot.bomb parade into the ground when we lost our largest customer overnight losing about 70% of our customer base in one day. That one I started in my Northern VA basement after I cashed out my AOL stock options. We made a AOL type software package for ISPs to compete with AOL. We offered both the back end provisioning/hosting/billing systems along with online content as well as the dial up and branded browser interface for the consumer.

There were others but those were the two big ones.

Sure. And now you fly FedEx feed. Riiiiight.

How about you? Ever started a company from your kitchen table that made a 7 figure profit.

Seven figures profit in a single year? No. And I don’t think you have, either. But my companies are doing quite well, thanks.

 

[av8tr1]

In fairness, you’re certainly not alone in believing that Southwest has the the lowest prices. Their marketing department has been phenomenal in conning the average consumer into believing that their prices are better than everyone else’s, even when the hard data shows otherwise. Their product sucks. But their marketing is brilliant!

This is the right answer. There's actually very little difference in airfares between carriers. On this route, for the same price, you could also fly on AK connecting through SEA, and UA through DEN. I'd choose AK of these options, as their rewards program is the best, and SEA has a Centurion.

Ok, you guys are right and I ceed that part of my argument. Most of the time Delta has been more expensive every time I looked by a significant amount. By example I had to fly someone from Kentucky to Houston 6 months ago. The southwest flight was $300 round trip the Delta flight cost me a little under $900. What do you expect from a helicopter pilot.....

But unless I am in uniform and am jumpseating Delta has never treated me as nice as Southwest has. I even had a Southwest crew and dispatch hold a plane for me to deal with a weight and balance issue to make sure I could make the flight. Delta would never do that for a jumpseater.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

But unless I am in uniform and am jumpseating Delta has never treated me as nice as Southwest has. I even had a Southwest crew and dispatch hold a plane for me to deal with a weight and balance issue to make sure I could make the flight. Delta would never do that for a jumpseater.

Back in the days when offline cockpit jumpseating was banned following 9/11, I once had a Delta captain allow me on the jumpseat anyway when the flight was full. He told the gate agent that he would take the heat if anyone complained. Not sure if he got in any trouble for it, but I couldn’t believe someone would put their own ass on the line like that. I would imagine it was easily a fireable offense if the Feds found out. Best treatment I ever got by any airline as a jumpseater.

 

[NickH]

Ok, you guys are right and I ceed that part of my argument. Most of the time Delta has been more expensive every time I looked by a significant amount. By example I had to fly someone from Kentucky to Houston 6 months ago. The southwest flight was $300 round trip the Delta flight cost me a little under $900. What do you expect from a helicopter pilot.....

But unless I am in uniform and am jumpseating Delta has never treated me as nice as Southwest has. I even had a Southwest crew and dispatch hold a plane for me to deal with a weight and balance issue to make sure I could make the flight. Delta would never do that for a jumpseater.

Now we have some variation!

SDF-HOU on January 16th is $181 on Southwest, $358 on Delta and $222 on American.

Over the next month, Southwest ranges $164-$181, Delta $358 and American $78-$222.

However, American and Delta are sub 5 hours, with connections in DFW or ATL, while SW will connect you in MDW or LAS, for a 7+ hour day.

American is my pick, for better rewards and DFW connection. There's a Centurion.

Or drive to CVG and there's a direct Delta flight for $172..

 

[av8tr1]

Sure. And now you fly FedEx feed. Riiiiight.
Seven figures profit in a single year? No. And I don’t think you have, either. But my companies are doing quite well, thanks.

Yep I sure do and loving almost every minute of it. I am not working 14 hours days and fighting traffic to and from my office everyday. I am not worried about the paychecks of 20 or 30 employees. I am doing my dream job. It doesn't pay anywhere near as well as my old job did but I am reasonably happy.

Not once did I say single year 7 figure profit. Look up the difference between revenue and profit. They do not mean the same thing. Keyva at its peak had around 50 employees. I was one of 5 owners not including our VC firm. Our employees made between 60K - 150K a year. Divide 440K a month and you'll see it's not a lot of profit. That's, using napkin math, about 8.8K a month per employee. You're a business owner I am sure you can figure out 440K a month isn't going to bring in huge profits. The point is I had a very successful business I started from my basement.

I've given you enough to google me and the company.

 

[av8tr1]

Back in the days when offline cockpit jumpseating was banned following 9/11, I once had a Delta captain allow me on the jumpseat anyway when the flight was full. He told the gate agent that he would take the heat if anyone complained. Not sure if he got in any trouble for it, but I couldn’t believe someone would put their own ass on the line like that. I would imagine it was easily a fireable offense if the Feds found out. Best treatment I ever got by any airline as a jumpseater.

Yep, but again you were in uniform. Probably with 4 bars on your shoulder. A special class. Show me a similar experience for a main cabin customer from Delta. The only people on Delta who are going to get that sort of treatment are those paying for 1st class. On Southwest generally everyone gets that treatment, regardless of what they paid.

 

[av8tr1]

Now we have some variation!

SDF-HOU on January 16th is $181 on Southwest, $358 on Delta and $222 on American.

Over the next month, Southwest ranges $164-$181, Delta $358 and American $78-$222.

However, American and Delta are sub 5 hours, with connections in DFW or ATL, while SW will connect you in MDW or LAS, for a 7+ hour day.

American is my pick, for better rewards and DFW connection. There's a Centurion.

Or drive to CVG and there's a direct Delta flight for $172..

You were right and I was wrong. I submit for my flogging and keelhauling.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Not once did I say single year 7 figure profit. Look up the difference between revenue and profit.

Dude, you specifically said profit and not revenue. I quoted your post. Here, I’ll help you: you said “Ever started a company from your kitchen table that made a 7 figure profit.”

I know the difference between revenue and profit. Apparently you don’t.

Yes, my largest company has been clearing seven figures in revenue for years now. Not that that means much, but you seem to think it’s important for some reason.

 

[alaskadrifter]

The bigger problem at the small operator level imho is that the chief pilots, DOs, etc are seeing spots opening up at LCCs and in some cases even majors that were inaccessible to them a few years ago and jumping on it. That’s leaving a lot of places with a leadership and experience vacuum at the top. In spite of the sour grapes that a few bitter 135 vets on here have at many places the CPs, DOs, ACPs are honest hardworking people who hold the operation together.

If you work really hard doing 50 hour weeks May-September, next year you can be a check airman and work 60 hour weeks March-October!

You can only make so much revenue 9 seats at a time, the economics of making a PC-12 competitive comp-wise to even a Crash 8 (for the same operation) doesn’t work in the long run.

We are having this problem. Base Leads, Flight training manager, chief pilot, DO all have or will see turn over within a year.

 

[av8tr1]

Dude, you specifically said profit and not revenue. I quoted your post. Here, I’ll help you: you said “Ever started a company from your kitchen table that made a 7 figure profit.”

I know the difference between revenue and profit. Apparently you don’t.

Yes, my largest company has been clearing seven figures in revenue for years now. Not that that means much, but you seem to think it’s important for some reason.

I didn't say a year. I said I sold the company for 3 million. That's the profit I was talking about.

 

[pete2800]

This thread is completely off the rails.

Can we go back to wishing for the demise of crappy regional airlines?

 

[Cptnchia]

I even had a Southwest crew and dispatch hold a plane for me to deal with a weight and balance issue to make sure I could make the flight. Delta would never do that for a jumpseater.

Gotta throw the BS flag. I do it on a regular basis. I know a bunch of captains that did when I was an FO.

We get it. You don’t like Delta. Not every does like them. No problem. Just stick to facts and leave the hyperbole out though. It doesn’t do your argument any good.

 

[av8tr1]

Gotta throw the BS flag. I do it on a regular basis. I know a bunch of captains that did when I was an FO.

We get it. You don’t like Delta. Not every does like them. No problem. Just stick to facts and leave the hyperbole out though. It doesn’t do your argument any good.

I'd never seen that before. It happened once. And only with Southwest. My Delta experience has not been as enjoyable. That's it. No hate here for the company.

And I actually really like Delta. I was born and raised in Atlanta so Delta and Coke were mainstays of my childhood.

But you're right. My argument on ticket prices has been shot full of holes by my lack of attention to detail. I'm out.

 

[Cptnchia]

I'd never seen that before. It happened once. And only with Southwest.

No offense, but if it only happened once, on SWA but never happened to you on Delta, how can you claim it would never happen on Delta?

 

[JDean3204]

Gotta throw the BS flag. I do it on a regular basis. I know a bunch of captains that did when I was an FO.

We get it. You don’t like Delta. Not every does like them. No problem. Just stick to facts and leave the hyperbole out though. It doesn’t do your argument any good.

I would be chuffed at the opportunity to one day fly for Delta, I just don't like the way they outsource their flying to the lowest bidder like the other majors do. Heck it's not even regional flying anymore. When I flew for OO I did SEA/SFO/LAX and back up to SEA. Flying for United I started in LAX and ended in LGA that same day.. Regionals should now just be called "contract" carriers.

As a passenger I think all three US legacies lack the customer service they once had. But the times have changed, flying is more common place even for the lower middle class. Meals and other good customer services are not sustainable at the prices we charge people to fly these days, especially with these ultra low fare specials.

 

[av8tr1]

No offense, but if it only happened once, on SWA but never happened to you on Delta, how can you claim it would never happen on Delta?

I've just never seen it. In my 8 years of jumpseating which compared to guys like you and Todd is pretty limited. I get it. I was wrong. I apologize and have been schooled on airline economics in a number of areas today.