av8tr1
"Never tell me the odds!"
Imagine that the least customer service focused company (my best friend was their GM until a few months ago) is one of the best performing in the market........Damn that empirical data.
The dark side of the pilot shortage.
- Thread starter gliderboy
- Start date
Imagine that the least customer service focused company (my best friend was their GM until a few months ago) is one of the best performing in the market........Damn that empirical data.
av8tr1
"Never tell me the odds!"
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Hardly a trick. It tells you when the book the ticket. And also, Delta mainline flies to Akron. There are very few cities served only by regional feed nowadays. Usually it's a mixture of regional feed and mainline flights. I fly Delta exclusively (when I'm not flying myself), and I never ride an RJ. In fact, I usually get to pick my equipment. Flying to Vegas? Here, pick from a 737-900, a 757, an A320, or a 767. On Southwest? Here, try to cram yourself into this coach seat on this 30 year old 737 between these two rednecks because you didn't want to show up four hours before your departure to snag boarding priority at the front of the cattle rush. Want to watch a movie? Here, use an iPad, peasant!
No, that's how they serve 900 destinations. They serve several hundred all by themselves. But as a Delta Skymiles member, I thank them for those airline partnerships. Just one more thing they give me that Southworst can't.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Whatever makes you feel better, sport. You're still wrong.
Airlines have been selling mostly loss-leading seats for decades. Especially after deregulation. The international first class seat selling for $7k makes up for the losses they take on multiple domestic seats. But in order to have that $7k international first class seat to sell, they have to have the feeder network.
This is basic airline economics. It shouldn't be surprising to you.
JDean3204
Well-Known Member
I guess I'll just go back to my corner now... carry on. But.. most passengers pay no attention to the small writing on their tickets. I don't know how many times I've had to explain the difference between Horizon and Alaska to a passenger sitting in the back of a Q thinking they're flying on Alaska.
Last edited:
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
It’s hilarious how recently fedex feeder was “made it” territory.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
I don’t disagree. And I’m definitely in favor of making mainline carriers be more up front about using feeder operators. But honestly, I don’t think 99% of passengers care.
Apophis
Resident Iconoclast
It is “made it territory.”
If you were broke and homeless before being hired, that is.
av8tr1
"Never tell me the odds!"
That's just it Todd, the rest of the world ARE peasants compared to you. How lucky you are that you can refuse to fly on one of the most common aircraft in the industry. Most of them can only afford the cheap seats. You own a 1/2 a million dollar airplane that you pay to sit in a heated garage. YOU are not normal. You are not the target market of 90% of the industry. YOU are also completely off on your own little tangent for this thread. You are now the very person you hate, airplane/airline management and completely out of touch with your market. You sat across the negotiating table from who you are now and accused you of not understanding why management can't pay pilots better. And continue to show your ignorance in airline business the more you post. You're probably a really great pilot but you have no clue about the market from a business perspective.
The whole industry CAN'T be 121. There has to be 135. HELL for that matter for 121 to have pilots, 121 NEEDS 135. How else is a pilot going to make those 1500/1200/750 hours for ATP?
Maybe if the 121 guys would help the 135 guys somehow get a leg up the industry would be in a better place. Instead we have the high time 121 guys "spitting on" the lowly 135 guys, forgetting that they were there once. And claiming, "You have to pay your dues" or "stop supporting bottom feeders". No wonder no one wants to be a pilot anymore......
I swear I think some of the dumbest people on the planet are high time 121 Captains.
NickH
Uber Driver
Great you found 1 single day from 1 single airport where the big D beats SW.
What? You picked the route and day. I just looked up the actual figures.
Over the month from Jan 16th to Feb 15th, Delta varies in price between $185 and $207. SWA has exactly the same variation on exactly the same days. So on that route, no price difference. Would you like to pick another route?
av8tr1
"Never tell me the odds!"
It's not a bad job. It just isn't a mainline Captain. I like my job. (I'm not so found of some of my corporate management) But not everyone has to make 300K and not everyone wants to. I walked away from 250K a year in IT for $25 an hour and I have never been happier and more content to go to work "most days". It's not a perfect job but it's a lot more fun and rewarding than writing performance reports, doing employee reviews, negotiating contracts, code review, leading software design meetings, doing user stories......
I am MUCH happier going to work at O'dark 30 than I ever was seeing my IT paychecks.
We have a lawyer who just started with us. Same thing. He is so much happier now than he ever was as a lawyer. He makes 1/4 what he made as a lawyer and it's still a better job.
Some of the most angry and bitter people I know are mainline Captains. I just can't understand why?
We have pilots who have been with us for 25 years. They are very happy flying a single pilot Cessna and often remark they wouldn't do anything else. Heck the pilot with the most time ever in a 208 works for us.
Apophis
Resident Iconoclast
There are actually a lot of options to reach those minimums without 135. Aerial Survey, Instructing, 91K (like Planesense).
135 has a lowly reputation because it has EARNED that reputation.
av8tr1
"Never tell me the odds!"
I'm not arguing that. I've certainly worked for some real bottom feeders "Cough Seaport, Cough" but they are not all that way. But there are only so many Aerial Survey jobs, instructor positions (even less since fewer people want to be pilots), and 91K operators. What do the rest of the up and coming pilots do? And really do you want your FO's 1500 hours to be flying in the pattern in the local airport?
What is needed (and I can't believe I am going to say this) is better enforcement by the FAA over 135s and how they operate. That's what solved 121s issues.
av8tr1
"Never tell me the odds!"
Where are you getting your numbers from? I can find neither that matches what you say.
My sources.
https://www.google.com/flights/#search;f=GEG;t=ATL;d=2018-01-17;r=2018-01-21;mc=d
https://www.southwest.com/flight/shortcut/select-flight.html?fromShowItinerary=1&int=
Here it is directly from Delta's website.
https://www.delta.com/air-shopping/flexDates.action
Delta's lowest fare is $419 and $392 consistently for the month of Jan.
Southwests lowest fare is $207 and $185 consistently for the month of Jan.
Damn that empirical data again.
Where are you seeing Delta GEG to ATL for $185.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Well, that's a horrible way to look at it. People should be treated like people, not like cattle, regardless of their income. My higher income should afford me a bigger seat, a better meal, etc., but it shouldn't be required in order for someone to have the basic dignity of not being herded onto an airplane like cattle.
We've been over this. It's not a matter of cost. Delta beats Southwest like a rented mule in Atlanta, because Southwest can't beat their prices consistently, even with their crappy service and product.
Since you're so wowed by anecdotes, here's one. I picked a city pair I frequently fly, ATL-LAS, and picked a random day. In this case, the 18th of this month. Delta has coach tickets available on both a 737-900 and an A321 for $118. Your beloved Southwest? Their cheapest ticket is $155.
Southworst blows.
How many businesses do you own and run again?
NickH
Uber Driver
You're looking at round trip flights on Delta, and comparing them to one way on SWA.
Damn that empirical data?
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Classic!
av8tr1
"Never tell me the odds!"
Damnit! You're right! Shoot. Well now I feel really stupid.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
In fairness, you’re certainly not alone in believing that Southwest has the the lowest prices. Their marketing department has been phenomenal in conning the average consumer into believing that their prices are better than everyone else’s, even when the hard data shows otherwise. Their product sucks. But their marketing is brilliant!
NickH
Uber Driver
This is the right answer. There's actually very little difference in airfares between carriers. On this route, for the same price, you could also fly on AK connecting through SEA, and UA through DEN. I'd choose AK of these options, as their rewards program is the best, and SEA has a Centurion.
Last edited: