I know, riieeeeeeeght?
I'm digging into the way-back depths of knowledge from the former life here
long ago stuff
Why isn't the new Air Force 1 a 777?
- Thread starter Chief Captain
- Start date
I'm digging into the way-back depths of knowledge from the former life here
long ago stuff
Basically, when a tanker and its receivers are joining up for an air refueling session, one of them.....the tanker or the receivers....have to do the maneuvering to effect the join up into one formation to commence refueling ops. For fighter jets as receivers, 9 times out of 10, they will be the ones doing the maneuvering to join up with the tanker (receiver turn-on) because they have the far better maneuverability. Every now and again, the tanker will affect the rejoin (tanker turn on) because the tanker needs to know how to do them, for when their receiver is another heavy aircraft like them, where the tanker more often does the rejoin. All of this is prebriefed on who is going to do what, or it's otherwise made clear on initial radio contact, as the last thing you want is for both the tanker and the receivers to be doing maneuvering to effect a rejoin, which ends up being both entities maneuvering against one another like a mild dogfight, and no rejoin happening because each entity is messing up the geometry of the other (as i experienced once firsthand in Iraq).
ChasenSFO
hen teaser
The 747-8 and A380 are the only 2 civil jets in ADG VI, they both carry tons of operational restrictions that bars them from operating at many airports. From a purely operational standpoint, anything bigger than a 777-300ER doesn't really make sense. I'll bet the C-32s(757s) end up doing a lot more presidential flying than they have in recent years.
A300Capt
Freight Dawg
A manufacturer would never do such a thing. Oh wait, Airbus did that and then reopened the A300-600F line when UPS placed an order.
Lawman
Well-Known Member
This sounds like some of our more creative Air rejoins when the air assault/lift aircraft gives no updates to the Attack Weapons Team overhead and just pulls pitch out of the LZ on an random heading..
Nothing like being on the wrong end of the racetrack and doing a pitch back turn and dive to regain airspeed while over the Baghdad embassy so as to regain position on the lift guys.
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And hence why they went lift track, instead of being good enough to go the attack route out of Rucker
:stir:
Lawman
Well-Known Member
We seem to get both ends of the barrel and very little of the middle ground unfortunately.
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Hahahaha. Nice try. Tracks go by class rank and lift/assault were chosen by the top eight in my class. Hope the attack community liked our number 9 guy.
:stir::stir::stir:
The Fez
Analog Millennial
Believe me brother, I feel your pain. I've spent many a night watching a rejoin come together nicely on our TCAS display, only to ask, "Wait, why are you turning into them?" as the PF makes a sudden and unannounced turn. Almost every time the reply was, "I don't want to get too close to the AR track border" as I watch them roll out 5 miles parallel to it. Then they turn to me and explain how they've saved the fighters some time/gas by closing the distance faster. Formation geometry just isn't taught to tanker crews anymore.
///AMG
Well-Known Member
Funny thing is that they don't even need to go outside the AR track, they literally just need to not do weird bananas turns that don't make sense, in various directions, and generally in the direction of severe thunderstorms. It is readily apparent that they have no understanding of formation flying or rejoins. I still love them though……….especially when their hose doesn't rupture mid tanking.
The drogue unit on the -135 was most definitely an afterthought. Most probe-equipped fighters dislike the -135 greatly, with its smaller basket and hose that has to be kept in an S in order to keep fuel flowing.
In the USN Vipers, you guys ever get the chance to refuel with boom-AR using the receptacle?
///AMG
Well-Known Member
No, though it would be an interesting experience if we did.
Like I mentioned, I like the flow of a -135 compared to the rest. Once you have the muscle memory, it isn't hard by any means, and actually it is a pretty easy basket to get plugged into (its heavy and doesn't move a lot unless in an AFG thunderstorm). Staying in is the hard part. Quick power off at contact, and then a bunch of power back on to catch it, then a little power back off to stabilize. Then you just stare at the knuckle and keep it over the inboard right motor and you are pretty much in position. Some guys use the outboard right, but that doesn't do it for me. Neither does "just flying form with the tanker". That last category is just straight lying………you have a tolerance of about 2 feet of travel in any direction before you disconnect or rip off a probe………it probably sounds cool to those types to tell such a lie, but it isn't something you can actually do without a more precise point of reference.
Like I mentioned, I like the flow of a -135 compared to the rest. Once you have the muscle memory, it isn't hard by any means, and actually it is a pretty easy basket to get plugged into (its heavy and doesn't move a lot unless in an AFG thunderstorm). Staying in is the hard part. Quick power off at contact, and then a bunch of power back on to catch it, then a little power back off to stabilize. Then you just stare at the knuckle and keep it over the inboard right motor and you are pretty much in position. Some guys use the outboard right, but that doesn't do it for me. Neither does "just flying form with the tanker". That last category is just straight lying………you have a tolerance of about 2 feet of travel in any direction before you disconnect or rip off a probe………it probably sounds cool to those types to tell such a lie, but it isn't something you can actually do without a more precise point of reference.
The Fez
Analog Millennial
When probe and drogue goes wrong. This was with an F-35 out of MCAS Yuma. He left his probe tip in the basket too. Waaaaay too easy to get a class B with these new jets.
Attachments
See that the USMC has made a tanker fit for the V-22? Apparently certed for F/A-18, AV-8, F-35, and CH-53 receivers.
///AMG
Well-Known Member
Probably at least as un-fun as tanking off a KC-130 in the Hornet. 217 knots IAS, plus prop wash and lightweight MPRS style pods/baskets. Not exactly the ideal regime to tank. Though that was my first tanking experience as a RAG student and it went ok, so I suppose it couldn't have been that hard.
The Fez
Analog Millennial
To be fair to the receiver pilot, it was his first AR attempt in the -35. According to the USAF -35 pilots I've spoken to, the jet has a "refuel" mode that changes the control sensitivity considerably, causing many to actually over control while they're getting used to it. My boom operator's directions on the radio drive me to believe that's exactly what happened with the student.