Pakistani International Airlines crash

[obx]

Boris enjoys the gallows humor. I don't think anyone should take it personally. Cops, paramedics, ER nurses and docs . . . all indulge in a little of it. When you are around death on a regular basis, it becomes part of the lexicon as a way of coping. You can "enjoy" the gallows humor without losing compassion for the victims. In many ways it helps you to maintain that compassion by having an outlet.

We pilots don't deal with death on a daily basis, but we're probably a little closer to it than your average guy. In spite of how amazingly safe many of our types of flying have become, they remain equally as unforgiving when things go bad.

In this case, the comment about "carrying the torch," while tongue-in-cheek, is also a bit of a commentary on a labor environment in a country where the caste system is alive and well. Wherein, jobs like airline pilot are often "inherited" and likely have more to do with nepotism than we're used to here.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

In this case, the comment about "carrying the torch," while tongue-in-cheek, is also a bit of a commentary on a labor environment in a country where the caste system is alive and well. Wherein, jobs like airline pilot are often "inherited" and likely have more to do with nepotism than we're used to here.

I set a high bar (stricter than the Company) for myself in flight operations because of my 80-year family history with this business, but indeed.

The odds, though, of two generations' worth dying at work are slim, and compounds the tragedy.

 

[ClarkGriswold]

I set a high bar (stricter than the Company) for myself in flight operations because of my 80-year family history with this business, but indeed.

The odds, though, of two generations' worth dying at work are slim, and compounds the tragedy.

What does that have to do with this? And examples of more strict than the company?

 

[Autothrust Blue]

That didn't come out quite correctly.

Point is, succinctly, "X accident happened because Y was a descendant of Z" isn't a particularly productive train of thought.

 

[deadstick]

You're talking to some of the same idiots who thought the Cirrus Jet death pool thread was hilarious.

But...it was.

What am I missing?

 

[Boris Badenov]

but we're probably a little closer to it than your average guy.

A little? We haven't flown together, have we?

 

[///AMG]

This is northern Pakistan, which should be the Lahore FIR. I still don't see how Karachi's controllers are relevant in dealing with woman pilots in regards to this crash. There were no female pilots in this crash, nor was Karachi Center involved. They were actually talking with Islamabad approach sector when things went wrong. Mayday went out ~ 1613L, and everything lost (radar, radio, etc) by 1616L.

It is starting to feel that this whole Trump election cycle has emboldened people to lash out, even when it's completely irrelevant to the topic and outcome at hand.

Fair enough, though I certainly didn't vote for trump. My point is that Pakistan ATC is a bunch of no talent clowns who sacrifice safety of flight for a number of reasons......some being religious, some being just professional ignorance. That point is ultimately concluded by saying that I wouldn't be surprised if they playeda role in this mishap. Could certainly be wrong, but not unlikely in my estimation

 

[Screaming_Emu]

Not sure where exactly this happened, or why it happened, but Karachi Center is THE most incompetent and least professional ATC agency I have ever dealt with. Not to mention that they refused to answer female aviators due to religious BS at the detriment of safety of flight on a regular basis, and by that I mean I never once heard them roger up a call from a woman. F*** those clowns and their "culture", if you can call it that without vomiting a little in your mouth. Even as a dude, I eventually just stopped even checking in with them. If you are going to play f*** f*** games and pretend you are "negative radar contact" just to prevent me from doing what I need to do to avoid a massive thunderstorm, I will do whatever the F I want, which I did regularly.

I found them to be alright, but would be happy to never fly over India again. Then again I've only talked to Karachi when it wasn't very busy.

 

[Screaming_Emu]

That didn't come out quite correctly.

Point is, succinctly, "X accident happened because Y was a descendant of Z" isn't a particularly productive train of thought.

I think it was a little more "huh...that's weird" not "look at that family of hacks."

 

[GypsyPilot]

Boris enjoys the gallows humor. I don't think anyone should take it personally. Cops, paramedics, ER nurses and docs . . . all indulge in a little of it. When you are around death on a regular basis, it becomes part of the lexicon as a way of coping. You can "enjoy" the gallows humor without losing compassion for the victims. In many ways it helps you to maintain that compassion by having an outlet.

We pilots don't deal with death on a daily basis, but we're probably a little closer to it than your average guy. In spite of how amazingly safe many of our types of flying have become, they remain equally as unforgiving when things go bad.

In this case, the comment about "carrying the torch," while tongue-in-cheek, is also a bit of a commentary on a labor environment in a country where the caste system is alive and well. Wherein, jobs like airline pilot are often "inherited" and likely have more to do with nepotism than we're used to here.

Well said. My wife is a paramedic and I used to be a non-aviation accident investigator.

Gallows humor is common in those types of industries for sure, completely as an outlet to keep your sanity.

 

[RDoug]

Gallows humor is common in those types of industries for sure, completely as an outlet to keep your sanity.

Amen to that. Controllers are notorious for their black humor . . . or at least they used to be before everyone got so "sensitive" and decided they were "offended" as they stifled a chuckle or two.

 

[Cptnchia]

I'm actually quite humorous, just not when it comes to a planeload of people dying. Forgive me for not understanding your depraved, twisted sense of humor.

Sounds like the guy in long sleeves who says: "I'm laid back and just go by the book."

 

[GypsyPilot]

Sounds like the guy in long sleeves who says: "I'm laid back and just go by the book."

A warning as strong as the rattle of a snake.

 

[amorris311]

Sounds like the guy in long sleeves who says: "I'm laid back and just go by the book."

There's ONE guy I know and fly with "regularly" who wears long sleeves. I finally said to him, "you're a good person and a decent person to fly with, why the long sleeves?" He rolled the sleeves back and showed two sleeve tattoos. Finally cleared the air.

 

[Roger Roger]

Well said. My wife is a paramedic and I used to be a non-aviation accident investigator.

Gallows humor is common in those types of industries for sure, completely as an outlet to keep your sanity.

Wasn't a week after we had a fatal CFIT at my shop that myself and a coworker were cracking jokes about it. Different people deal in different ways.

 

[Adler]

There's ONE guy I know and fly with "regularly" who wears long sleeves. I finally said to him, "you're a good person and a decent person to fly with, why the long sleeves?" He rolled the sleeves back and showed two sleeve tattoos. Finally cleared the air.

I asked the guy a few weeks ago "so what's with the long sleeves, you got a bunch of tattoos or something?"

Apparently it was his first trip north and was worried it would be cold.

 

[Apophis]

Sounds like the guy in long sleeves who says: "I'm laid back and just go by the book."

Long sleeves? Nope nope nope nope. Never!

 

[BigZ]

I asked the guy a few weeks ago "so what's with the long sleeves, you got a bunch of tattoos or something?"

Apparently it was his first trip north and was worried it would be cold.

To paraphrase a certain aviation TV show character, I'm like the worst Russian ever.
There will be a parka and a couple of beyond-polar-circle-milspec-sweaters hidden in the airplane somewhere if I'm going north.
Now that I unfortunately live in the relative north these days, it's even worse.

 

[phill1174]

Now I'm rethinking wearing a long sleeve shirt for my Quebec City overnight coming up.