Career Advice--HELP

TBlake22

TBlake22

Well-Known Member
Alright so I'm 24, signed up for the ATP zero to hero program (I'm going in with my PPL) a few months ago & am supposed to start Monday.

I'm already in $20,000 worth of debt, took out another sallie mae loan for $50,000 at TEN percent interest (no clue why it was that high my credit score is good). The pay back on that one loan totals $102,000 when all is said & done. I'm also paying rent in Nashville & anybody that lives here knows it's not cheap. I have $10,000 or so saved up in my bank account & have two part time
jobs.

When it's all factored in after training with ATP, with the sallie mae payback added to what I pay now, I know there's NO WAY I'll be able to pay ~$2,000 a month from loans & rent, while making whatever crap pay as a CFI & still keep my head above water. I've seen ATP described as "financial suicide" on here, & I feel like that's exactly where I'm headed if I stick with ATP. My question is, should I use some of the $10,000 I have saved up & work on my other ratings at a local school, while also keeping a job & being able to comfortably live & pay back my loans now?

There's also a guy I know that flies a king air 90 I believe for some oil company out of Texas & he says I can fly with him for free anytime I want to to build some hours..so that's definitely a plus. I feel like I already know the right answer, but any guidance/help would be so much appreciated.
 
I too am starting ATP soon. I'll be at APA and rent isn't cheap thier either.

I'm going into this virtually debt free but will still face hefty debt repayment following school. With my Sallie Mae loan, repayment doesn't start until six months after program completion. Having managed large amounts of debt before, the key for me will be eliminating as much spending as possible and stashing away loan payments before I'm required to start making them. I also have family support to help make ends meet, but that assistance isn't a part of my initial budget.

Also keep in mind that while ATP advertises thier CFIs earn up to $42K/yr, it includes the $11K in tuition reimbursement from the participating partner airlines.

In your situation, going to an FBO might be better. You're still quite young and have plenty of time. Myself, I'm 37 so I'm looking to get the ratings out of the way as quickly as I can.
 
TBlake22 said:
When it's all factored in after training with ATP, with the sallie mae payback added to what I pay now, I know there's NO WAY I'll be able to pay ~$2,000 a month from loans & rent, while making whatever crap pay as a CFI & still keep my head above water. I've seen ATP described as "financial suicide" on here, & I feel like that's exactly where I'm headed if I stick with ATP. My question is, should I use some of the $10,000 I have saved up & work on my other ratings at a local school, while also keeping a job & being able to comfortably live & pay back my loans now?
Click to expand...

If it isn't too late for you to avoid a financial penalty for not starting on Monday, I think you already know the answer.

You should be able to get an instrument rating for well less than the 10 grand you have saved. The Commercial and CFI ratings cost almost nothing, and that's all you really need to get hired someplace.
 
Skip to min 03:04



If you stay with ATP, that is. They're gonna take a chuck and refund you the rest. Maybe with the $10k you have saved up, you can maybe finish up a bit more cheaply at a Mom & Pop shop. I have about $20k saved and should be able to finish up my IFR and comm with that amount.

Real sorry to hear about your situation.
 
Last edited:
The way I understand it, you loose the $1000 deposit no matter what (unless you cancel way before you're scheduled start date). As far as funds disbursed to ATP, you loose the funds that have already been used, the rest gets kicked back to you or the lending agency. Then you'll be responsible to the lending agency for repaying what was dispersed to ATP.
 
TBlake22 said:
.................There's also a guy I know that flies a king air 90 I believe for some oil company out of Texas & he says I can fly with him for free anytime I want to to build some hours..so that's definitely a plus. I feel like I already know the right answer, but any guidance/help would be so much appreciated.
Click to expand...
Is the guy an instructor? Otherwise, don't rely on this because it depends on his operation. You might be able to gain "experience" but not loggable flight hours.....

[EDIT] added Q
 
Maximillian_Jenius said:
I have about $20k saved and should be able to finish up my IFR and comm with that amount. Real sorry to hear about your situation.
Click to expand...

Dang Max.. not putting it lightly with that video lol.

I agree though, I finished my IFR and Commercial in the last 6 months for probably under 6K part 61. I recommend getting an airport job (line, fbo, ops, etc) if you can, or anything just to be around the airport more in general. I saved up some money, quit my "secure" insurance job I hated in February and took a substantial pay cut to start working at the FBO at the airport I learned to fly at as a teenager. The connections and networking are worth it. Especially if you are young and have a good attitude. I've learned opportunity is the name of the game and you have to make sure you're present for them. I've gotten to fly a/c and get have experiences I'd never be able to otherwise. Also seeing the DPE everyday and being part of the "airport family" is pretty helpful. I'm pretty adverse to debt so while it may take me longer going 61, that's okay with me. Just my .02.
 
I'd try to bring the loan repayment down anyway you can. When I graduated college I had $89k in debt. CFI salary about $30k for me. Right now I'm on income based for my govt. loans. Obviously not ideal and some may disagree with me but I only CFI'd for 1 year and then I'll probably bump my payments back to normal when I get a slightly better wage. Just something to keep in your back pocket as a suggestion. Hang in there...sucks but time goes by fast.
 
TBlake22 said:
Alright so I'm 24, signed up for the ATP zero to hero program (I'm going in with my PPL) a few months ago & am supposed to start Monday.

I'm already in $20,000 worth of debt, took out another sallie mae loan for $50,000 at TEN percent interest (no clue why it was that high my credit score is good). The pay back on that one loan totals $102,000 when all is said & done. I'm also paying rent in Nashville & anybody that lives here knows it's not cheap. I have $10,000 or so saved up in my bank account & have two part time
jobs.

When it's all factored in after training with ATP, with the sallie mae payback added to what I pay now, I know there's NO WAY I'll be able to pay ~$2,000 a month from loans & rent, while making whatever crap pay as a CFI & still keep my head above water. I've seen ATP described as "financial suicide" on here, & I feel like that's exactly where I'm headed if I stick with ATP. My question is, should I use some of the $10,000 I have saved up & work on my other ratings at a local school, while also keeping a job & being able to comfortably live & pay back my loans now?

There's also a guy I know that flies a king air 90 I believe for some oil company out of Texas & he says I can fly with him for free anytime I want to to build some hours..so that's definitely a plus. I feel like I already know the right answer, but any guidance/help would be so much appreciated.
Click to expand...

Don't do it. That is absolutely going to wreck your financial freedom to do other things with your money now and years down the road. 10K can go a long way working yourself into the right time and opportunity. With that, fly and work to save for the rest of your training and remain free of the bank prison.
 
I agree with everyone here, probably best to get out while you can and work on the rest of your ratings at a smaller flight school as you have the means to do so. That much debt will affect your future decions on which jobs you are able to accept and where you're able to live based soley on income, rather than QoL or any other factor.
 
Yeah I was sure of the right answer before & you guys are just solidifying that. There's just no way I can handle that amount of debt at my age. Looking like an FBO at MQY or JWN is the best bet while still having a job. Thanks for the help.
 
TBlake22 said:
There's also a guy I know that flies a king air 90 I believe for some oil company out of Texas & he says I can fly with him for free anytime I want to to build some hours..so that's definitely a plus.
Click to expand...

Be careful about that one...remember a Private Pilot must pay no less than the pro rata share of the direct costs of operating the aircraft. That's likely an inordinate amount for a king air. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but is it technically legal to fly and log ?

...Break...

Do you have a degree yet?
How about enrolling in an associates program so you have access to federal loans, as well as reduced ATP mins. the Private will count as coursework toward your graduation credit hour requirement. Might not be as fast as ATP, but might save you 25k in interest...which is a huge chunk of change.
 
RamRise said:
Do you have a degree yet?
How about enrolling in a associates program so you have access to federal loans, as well as reduced ATP mins. the Private will count as coursework toward your graduation credit hour requirement.
Click to expand...
+1 for this. That was a big reason I did a 4 year aviation degree. Low low interest rates. My private counted as 6 credits towards graduation and helped me graduate a year early doing every summer semester saved loads of money too.
 
I just want to echo what everyone else is saying here.

Immense student loan debt seems manageable when things are moving and upgrades are quick. But I know a lot of people who actually had to get out of flying because the music stopped and they simply couldn't afford to work an entry level aviation job indefinitely with the amount of debt they had.

It's a challenge and it will take hard work, but there are guys on here who worked their way through all their ratings on a rampers paycheck. I'm sure it was no picnic, but those guys will be better for it as they'll probably remember what it's like to be out there throwing bags in the pouring rain.
 
drunkenbeagle said:
You should be able to get an instrument rating for well less than the 10 grand you have saved. The Commercial and CFI ratings cost almost nothing, and that's all you really need to get hired someplace.
Click to expand...

"Almost nothing"-not so sure about that.
The instrument cost me around 10k.
Commercial was 4K (this was learning the maneuvers, meeting the complex requirement, and the checkride fee)
I couldn't afford the CFI after that, it runs probably 3-6K depending on how sharp you are.

If this guy only has a private, he likely still needs to build 100 plus hours of time for the commercial as well.

I'm not sure how long ago you went through the system, but at least here on the west coast, planes are $150/hr and instructors are $50/hour on the ground and in air. When you include pre and post flight briefing, ground training and so forth It adds up quick.
 
First off- good job in recognizing the poison apple of crippling debt! So few have the ability to see past the Top Gun exterior of aviation in the beginning.
As far as a way to move ahead goes, my two cents would be to organize a thought-out plan for how to get where you are going and what you imagine your end game is (which of course can change) as you progress.. Would you be willing to share your aviation goals to us,? There are a few different routes out there, a goal specific design can be paramount to get to a paid flying position quickly.

RamRise said:
Be careful about that one...remember a Private Pilot must pay no less than the pro rata share of the direct costs of operating the aircraft. That's likely an inordinate amount for a king air. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but is it technically legal to fly and log ?
Click to expand...

FAR 61.113 (c) doesn't apply- OP isn't PIC or required crew: no responsibility for the operation as a passenger.
otherwise- it can do you no harm to spend time in the King Air, and the connections and advice there may be great as well as learning the flows and operations for something a few years down the road- you can't currently log the time, but logging time is not the ONLY important thing in the aviation world, the best situations come from a good relationship and someone giving you a chance when they see potential in someone who is working hard.
 
stradamus said:
FAR 61.113 (c) doesn't apply- OP isn't PIC or required crew: no responsibility for the operation as a passenger.
otherwise- it can do you no harm to spend time in the King Air, and the connections and advice there may be great as well as learning the flows and operations for something a few years down the road- you can't currently log the time, but logging time is not the ONLY important thing in the aviation world, the best situations come from a good relationship and someone giving you a chance when they see potential in someone who is working hard.
Click to expand...

I think you're right,now that I'm rereading the reg. Say he was private with a multiengine class rating and the king air didn't require a type rating. Then he could log any time he was the sole manipulator of controls (if the friend handed over the plane)? Without being required to pay for the flight in any manner?
 
RamRise said:
"Almost nothing"-not so sure about that.
The instrument cost me around 10k.
Commercial was 4K (this was learning the maneuvers, meeting the complex requirement, and the checkride fee)
I couldn't afford the CFI after that, it runs probably 3-6K depending on how sharp you are.

If this guy only has a private, he likely still needs to build 100 plus hours of time for the commercial as well.
Click to expand...

Most of the time I logged between PPL and Commercial airplane was in gliders - that probably cost around $40/hour. I did the C-ASEL and CFI-Airplane checkrides over a weekend, and would guess I flew about 8 hours dual preparing for them. Passed both rides, so clearly that can be done. This was in the last 5 years. I also did most of my training for the Instrument Airplane rating in an Arrow, so I had managed to cover most of the aeronautical experience requirements for the commercial airplane at the same time. I also started towing gliders right at 200 TT with a PPL.

99% of the CFI ride is studying, by yourself, at home. You don't need to be sharp, but you do need to put in several hundred hours reading.
 
RamRise said:
"Almost nothing"-not so sure about that.
The instrument cost me around 10k.
Commercial was 4K (this was learning the maneuvers, meeting the complex requirement, and the checkride fee)
I couldn't afford the CFI after that, it runs probably 3-6K depending on how sharp you are.

If this guy only has a private, he likely still needs to build 100 plus hours of time for the commercial as well.

I'm not sure how long ago you went through the system, but at least here on the west coast, planes are $150/hr and instructors are $50/hour on the ground and in air. When you include pre and post flight briefing, ground training and so forth It adds up quick.
Click to expand...

Is that $4k for just the Comm ASEL? How much does the CMEL, cost?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top