AA list is out

typhoonpilot said:
I agree Mike.

The critical difference was that NWA/Republic was date-of-hire with conditions and restrictions. While that kind of an integration may seem unfair in the beginning, over time it becomes fairer and fairer. A relative position integration may seem very fair right at the beginning but it becomes more and more unfair as time goes on.

The worst case scenario has happened to TWA pilots in this integration because of how badly they were screwed by AA back in 2001. The junior ones were essentially stapled to the AA list and then furloughed. So now they are near the bottom of the AA list with little time in service. End result is they are now placed at or below basically all the AWA pilots, even ones not even hired in 2001 when the junior TWA pilots were active ALPA members with 2 to 5 years of active service.

I understand it is impossible to revisit the AA/TWA integration, but I bring it up as an example of how bad relative position or anything other than date-of-hire can be to someone's career over the long term.

At one time ALPA's merger policy was date-of-hire. The UAL pilots fought to change that when they got spooked over the possibility of a USAir/UAL merger. That move actually came back to bite them in the behind with the UAL/Continental merger and it really hurt the pilots in the USAir/AWA merger as well as numerous pilots on the NWA side in the DAL/NWA merger.

I guess my brain just works differently than most guys here. I am all about fairness over the long term. A DOH integration with conditions and restrictions will always be the fairest way to integrate pilot lists.


Typhoonpilot
Click to expand...
The green book guys got screwed plain and simple and whoop dee do if they get to be senior their last FEW years. They would have been better off with relative and no 20 year fence. This is coming from the son of a red book guy too. You just like DOH because you were an Eastie. BTW why did you leave there in the first place? ...
 
Last edited:
Derg said:
I know.

It's like saying "someone PICK on me!"

I remember that one time my copilot told me he didn't do PA's because he wasn't paid to do them.

"Give me your best FREE PA".
Click to expand...
GTFO my seat.

Sheesh, they're tracking this per crew at my DCI carrier. So "we don't get paid for that" is probably not a very good argument...
 
MikeD said:
Not in the contract?
Click to expand...

Nah, just a pilot who wanted to tell me how superior Endeavor was in every facet and how he was BMOC. I guess he wasn't handling being one of thirteen thousand and no one giving a poop about how important he (thought he) was at his previous airline very well.
 
Word is that "3 Cups" watched a guy walk into an ATR prop and die back in the day and maybe that's what messed him up. My only interaction with him was requesting a jumpseat once but there were seats in the back. I've heard he's actually not that bad to fly with. Quirky, but nowhere near as bad as flying with a micromanager.
 
Derg said:
Nah, just a pilot who wanted to tell me how superior Endeavor was in every facet
Click to expand...
giphy.gif
 
ClarkGriswold said:
You just like DOH because you were an Eastie. BTW why did you leave there in the first place? ...
Click to expand...

Just like he was practically saying there were no issues with the culture at Emirates, how they took care of their 'risks to their business' which in their mind is under performing pilots (wonder how that is measured), and how GREAT things were there from a safety stand point...

http://forums.jetcareers.com/threads/flydubai-flight-981.233547/page-8#post-2596935

typhoonpilot said:
Can't really speak for the maintenance side, but there were rarely ever any MEL items. The engineers were worked pretty hard though and the company had a hard time attracting new engineers to join so they were always under-manned.

On the pilot side of EK, the standards are pretty high. The term we used when deciding on terminating an under-performing pilot was, "they are a risk to the business". Upgrade to captain is far more difficult than at U.S. carriers. Quite honestly, when riding as a passenger, I would choose EK over pretty much every other airline in the world from a pilot competence standpoint.


Typhoonpilot
Click to expand...

typhoonpilot said:
As an examiner I can categorically say that is not true. More than a few cadet pilots failed training and were let go. They are not coddled. Would be interested to hear the first hand stories. For their experience level they are generally pretty sharp.


TP
Click to expand...

typhoonpilot said:
How exactly? We had this debate before. Emirates holds pilots to a far higher standard than U.S. carriers.

Having worked for:

U.S. Regional
U.S. Major
U.S. Supplemental
numerous foreign carriers
and two major aircraft manufacturers, I can easily validate my observations.

More than a few U.S. major airline pilots came to Emirates and either failed initial training or later failed to upgrade. The biggest percentage of those being from Delta/NWA. USAirways pilots did very well. United pilots did pretty well. AA pilots did okay. ATA pilots did okay. The regionals pilots were a mixed bag but some were really good and some not so good.

It may not be what you want to hear, but it is derived from over 30 years of professional flying and a unique exposure to nearly 100 different pilot groups from all over the world.

I will throw a bone to Seggy though because fatigue can erode the level of safety.


Typhoonpilot
Click to expand...

This then happens and disproves what he has been pontificating...

http://forums.jetcareers.com/threads/emirates-777-rough-landing-in-dubai.239412/

Which leads me to believe, he is just pontificating on what fits his view. If he was an America West guy he would have been pontificating relative seniority.
 
jtrain609 said:
That's three cups, he's an ERJ side lifer. Also requires his crew to walk through the terminal in order of command; captain, with the FO following directly behind, and the FA following behind the FO.
Click to expand...

We had a CA like that at VX. Didn't last long.


jtrain609 said:
Yup. First for the coffee, second for the coffee being hot, the third because the FA touched the second cup.
Click to expand...

That's just asking to one day get a "contaminated" cup, if you get the drift.
 
Van_Hoolio said:
Word is that "3 Cups" watched a guy walk into an ATR prop and die back in the day and maybe that's what messed him up. My only interaction with him was requesting a jumpseat once but there were seats in the back. I've heard he's actually not that bad to fly with. Quirky, but nowhere near as bad as flying with a micromanager.
Click to expand...

We talking an ASA ATR? Cause no one was ever killed by one of those. E120? Saw the ramper drive in to it, but no ATR.
 
Ive never been a fan of what the east did after the AWest merger. The leaders acted like children, refused to budge off of DOH, and an arbitrator slapped them all for refusing to play ball. I get why many of the members felt it was an unjust award. I don't agree with, but understand why some folks decided to exploit the loop hole, create USAPA, and play the 4 corner offense despite the pay. The nic is pretty ridiculous, if not then, it would be now. Facing ending their career in the right seat, some were willing to give up just about anything just to make sure that didnt happen. USAPA was a pretty worthless union, outside of their one true goal. I'm glad its gone. I hope that this freight train integration is to fast to stop and hope any sparks of hope that someone can injunction this thing into another decade are stamped out quickly. Its time to move on.
 
Baronman said:
CoEx
Click to expand...

If it was the one in LIT, 99ish when the station manager was killed, I was there. Sitting in another ATR two airplanes behind the CoEx airplane. It was a bad deal, but I can't imagine it pushing you to ask for three cups, or any of that other strangeness.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top