AA list is out

MikeD said:
Northwest seemed to work, with all their different color "book" guys.

Though it was dicey sometimes, as i witnessed on the 727 jumpseat a long time ago
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That cost the "green book" guys a crap ton of money because of the fences!
 
Derg said:
I rode the jumpseat alongside an XJT Iraqi Dinar guy once. Did he carry around a hugely inappropriate amount of bags on trips? Like literally every bit of occupiable space had a piece of his junk in it where you had to walk your one bag downstairs… in an airbus?
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I flew with him. Wasn't pleasant.
 
jtrain609 said:
Having worked with the lawyers who handled that one, and the subsequent litigation, I'm not entirely sure I'd say that it "worked."
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Derg said:
That cost the "green book" guys a crap ton of money because of the fences!
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Yeah that 727 ride i was on, it was sterile cockpit for the whole darn flight. No one talked to anyone between the capt/ FO/FE, apart from flight related. Rather uncomfortable sitting there in my jumpseat against the back wall watching all this.
 
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MikeD said:
Northwest seemed to work, with all their different color "book" guys.

Though it was dicey sometimes, as i witnessed on the 727 jumpseat a long time ago
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I agree Mike.

The critical difference was that NWA/Republic was date-of-hire with conditions and restrictions. While that kind of an integration may seem unfair in the beginning, over time it becomes fairer and fairer. A relative position integration may seem very fair right at the beginning but it becomes more and more unfair as time goes on.

The worst case scenario has happened to TWA pilots in this integration because of how badly they were screwed by AA back in 2001. The junior ones were essentially stapled to the AA list and then furloughed. So now they are near the bottom of the AA list with little time in service. End result is they are now placed at or below basically all the AWA pilots, even ones not even hired in 2001 when the junior TWA pilots were active ALPA members with 2 to 5 years of active service.

I understand it is impossible to revisit the AA/TWA integration, but I bring it up as an example of how bad relative position or anything other than date-of-hire can be to someone's career over the long term.

At one time ALPA's merger policy was date-of-hire. The UAL pilots fought to change that when they got spooked over the possibility of a USAir/UAL merger. That move actually came back to bite them in the behind with the UAL/Continental merger and it really hurt the pilots in the USAir/AWA merger as well as numerous pilots on the NWA side in the DAL/NWA merger.

I guess my brain just works differently than most guys here. I am all about fairness over the long term. A DOH integration with conditions and restrictions will always be the fairest way to integrate pilot lists.


Typhoonpilot
 
I'm not sure any "green book" guy thought it got more and more fair as time went on… and junior pilots upgraded to the 747 whilst they were still trudging around in the 320 and the 757. I think @Richman would probably have a better angle on this than I.
 
typhoonpilot said:
I agree Mike.

The critical difference was that NWA/Republic was date-of-hire with conditions and restrictions. While that kind of an integration may seem unfair in the beginning, over time it becomes fairer and fairer. A relative position integration may seem very fair right at the beginning but it becomes more and more unfair as time goes on.

The worst case scenario has happened to TWA pilots in this integration because of how badly they were screwed by AA back in 2001. The junior ones were essentially stapled to the AA list and then furloughed. So now they are near the bottom of the AA list with little time in service. End result is they are now placed at or below basically all the AWA pilots, even ones not even hired in 2001 when the junior TWA pilots were active ALPA members with 2 to 5 years of active service.

I understand it is impossible to revisit the AA/TWA integration, but I bring it up as an example of how bad relative position or anything other than date-of-hire can be to someone's career over the long term.

At one time ALPA's merger policy was date-of-hire. The UAL pilots fought to change that when they got spooked over the possibility of a USAir/UAL merger. That move actually came back to bite them in the behind with the UAL/Continental merger and it really hurt the pilots in the USAir/AWA merger as well as numerous pilots on the NWA side in the DAL/NWA merger.

I guess my brain just works differently than most guys here. I am all about fairness over the long term. A DOH integration with conditions and restrictions will always be the fairest way to integrate pilot lists.


Typhoonpilot
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First, you're out of your mind.

Second, it's clear you're out of your element and have never done any work on a merger committee.
 
Derg said:
You're killing me, smalls.

This is reason #4,492 why I don't believe in flow-throughs.
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The only redeeming thing is that I'd have to put s quick stop to his buffoonery.

"You want three crew cups? The first one is free. You have to pay 25 cents for every one after that. You can give the money to the secretary in the CPO when we pass through a base. You also get to walk BEHIND any FA who is senior to you. Don't like it, call Skeds. Oh, by the way, I need to fill out your new hire evaluation. How do you spell 'insubordanant?' "
 
Autothrust Blue said:
I'm usually out in front because I can't walk slowly.
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It's those long legs...

I'm usually last because I like to make sure everybody is together. There are a lot of captain's that just take off and leave everyone behind. I've flown with one recently who will leave and send the van back for you if he has to wait more than a minute or two.

Go team.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
 
trafficinsight said:
It's those long legs...

I'm usually last because I like to make sure everybody is together. There are a lot of captain's that just take off and leave everyone behind. I've flown with one recently who will leave and send the van back for you if he has to wait more than a minute or two.

Go team.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
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I'm pretty much the last one out of the jet, ironically.
 
Derg said:
I'm not sure any "green book" guy thought it got more and more fair as time went on… and junior pilots upgraded to the 747 whilst they were still trudging around in the 320 and the 757. I think @Richman would probably have a better angle on this than I.
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Ah. Yea. 20 years of the Robert's Award. There was angst when it started, and angst when it ended.

Richman
 
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trafficinsight said:
It's those long legs...

I'm usually last because I like to make sure everybody is together. There are a lot of captain's that just take off and leave everyone behind. I've flown with one recently who will leave and send the van back for you if he has to wait more than a minute or two.

Go team.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
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FOs gotta herd the cats sometimes.
 
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